June 2, 2021 124 mins

This week's guests on Questlove Supreme are THE American Music Dynasty. We can all agree with Quest in saying, "we would be pressed to find one person on this earth who has not been affected by their legacy." After selling well over 100 million records, recording and performing hit records for the past 50 years, providing a life soundtrack, in the form of their catalog for multiple generations to enjoy, The Jacksons join us! Listen as Tito, Jackie and Marlon allow us into their world following the reissue of four of your favorite Jackson albums being released this year.  Shhhhhhhh class is in session!

 

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Course Love
Supremest Quest Love. We have Team Supreme with us. We
have unpaid bill. Yes, there you are. How you doing,

(00:21):
Sugar step in the house? How are you doing? Hi?
Am Mayre? Hi Jackson? Alright, what's up? Sugar? Yes we
have fantigolo but yeah, man buzzing down a Saturday and
a crab cake. I'm sorry because because you know, I'm
watching trying to watch my figures and I've been first

(00:43):
of all day, I said to let you know I
would give it up. I had it on blasts before.
I can't wait on this doll day. Finally we have
the first lady of the show. How how are you
right now? Good? Feel it? Wet? Pa? Can you feel
it anyway? Ladies and gentlemen, I will just say that, um,

(01:10):
we're given the honor right now of having a conversation
with h an American I guess I can say an
American institution, Yes, an American dynasty. For over damn near
six decades, um Our guests have blazed a trail of
of of hit records, have sold out concerts of Disney

(01:32):
and choreography of ground baking videos. Basically, I'll be pressed
to find one human being on earth who's not, in
one way, shape or form, been affected by their legacy.
And it's apropos that they're on the show now their
entire Sony catalog has just caught up with their motown catalog,
and that they're uh self titled seventy six album U

(01:55):
seventy seven is going places and Destiny from seventy eight
have finally, after all these decades, gotten the remastered treatment,
finally on streaming platforms, and you know, basically words I'd
never thought i'd say in this left time. Ladies and gentlemen,
please welcome to Quest Love Supreme the Jackson's Yes All,

(02:24):
So you know, slight disclosure, we were cheated already by
uh talking to Tito. Actually what our our second episode? Correct,
since since we've been the I heart right our second episode?
So um, this this might be rerun city, but you know,
figured I figure out creative ways to ask these questions.

(02:47):
I guess my My first question off the bat is
if one says Jackson Street, what is your first immediate
memory that comes to mind automatically? Well, this is Marlin,
so gonna jump in first. Since something get out of
the out of the three here, you should be like,
this should be the last one. No, brother, Uh that

(03:16):
house Jackson Street, that our house in Gary, Indiana. The
first thing that pops in mind to me that that
huge house when I was young, and when I go
back to visit that little house that we all grew
up in and we all practice. That's where we got
our start from from that house on the corner of

(03:37):
Jackson Street. So you're seeing that as a young as
a youngster, you thought that that was an average sized
house and no, that was that was a mansion when
we're young. Yes, it sure was. We did everything in
that house, played hide and seek and rehearse. We put

(03:57):
to pull the furniture back in father with rehearses in
the living room. It was only a two bedroom houseleving people,
but we managed to make it work. Marla's garage is
bigger than that house. Right now, Jackie, what are you
what are your memories of Jackson Street? Well, like Marlon said,

(04:18):
you know, it's a place where we all grew up
in the house and uh a lot of fun memories.
There were loving uh parents and we love each other,
were bonded together. We had a two bedroom house and uh,
and I remember, you know, in our bedroom we had
like bump bits that were stacked up together, like like
the three students. Yeah, yeah, and my sisters, my sisters,

(04:43):
they all slept in the liber room. It was accounts
account bed they let out, and my mother and father
slept in the other bedroom. But there was a lot
of love, with a lot of rehearsing in that house.
We bonded together. And there's a lot of small concerts
in the house because we had audience people coming from
the neighborhood eating in the windows. Why in us rehearse
every single day and we and uh, that was pretty

(05:04):
much our audience. And that's uh, there's a lot of
fun memories. It was just an open door policy, like
one could just just come up to the window. Oh,
just come to the window, not walk inside the house,
and you can walk inside, you can. They will fight
to get the best position in the window to look
we were doing. Yeah, usually and they're watching these rehearsals.

(05:28):
Then how how long would these rehearsals last? For a
couple yeah, two hours and least sometime three you know,
so we get it right, we take a break and
take a fifteen minute break and go back at it.
You know. Okay, because most of the time we had
rehearsals prior to doing the gig, because we were gig

(05:50):
on the weekdays after school, We're rehearsed and go to
that gig about seven o'clock in the evening in Chicago,
what have you? Oh? Then be back, get back home
somewhere around one or two in the morning, get up
and go to school. Which I did not mind because
when we were when we played shows in Chicago, people

(06:11):
would throw money on stage, and so Michael and I,
you know, we're doing splits left and right, and we
get to keep the money. Sho. So when I went
to school, we used to stop at the store and
get the pocket full of candy. Didn't go to class.
So Michael and I we always had money in the
second grade. Okay. I wanted to know I got five

(06:40):
for a penny, You got five for a penny back
in those days. I know that you guys were an
official five some uh what sixty? But back when the
group was just a trio, back when it's just Jackie,
Tito and Jermine, what what was the what was the

(07:00):
arrangement of the group then before Marlon and Michael came along,
Like well, we were just basically a bedroom group. We
hadn't done anything out in the public or anything like that.
We were just three brothers trying to be the brothers Temptations,
trying to figure it out, trying to figure out trying, yeah,
trying to figure it out. How did Temptations sound like this?

(07:24):
Or the Miracles or whoever? Were just putting to get
you know, getting it together. But in a trio situation,
who was the lead person? Who was the in that
particular situation At that time, Jermaine was singing a lot
of lead. Most people were all singing at that time too.
But then later on then Michael and Marlin joined and

(07:45):
Michael came in playing you know the Quaker old Maal
boxes he called to playing the bungles on that Michael
did and he has some much with him and Marlin
had so much dancing a bill of the energy. So
we decided, hey, man, we gotta put them in the group,
you know. Okay, yeah, so that's how that started, you know,

(08:07):
And so let me serve them in the group. And
then we started doing all these talent shows. You know,
all these talent shows in time from my high school,
we had a lot of talent shows going on. We
were joining these talent shows, rehearsing for the talent shows,
and we would win these talent shows all all over
the regional part of uh, the state you know of Indiana.

(08:29):
We go to Michigan, different places like that and uh
and this went all these talent shows. And on the
shows there were these wheels earth when the fires on
some of these shows, and you know, these talent shows
like that. You know, I was gonna say, um, yeah,
one want the Hutchinson of the Emotions. Yeah. And Sheila
I believe as well, told us that they would often

(08:50):
run into you guys doing the circuits. Yeah, yeah, we did.
We did what they called the chilling circuit. And actually
not only them, the o J's, it was the Shylights
and us and and like you said, the emotions. And
we used to do a place in Chicago called the
High Chaparella and um Maurice White was with another band

(09:13):
and they would play it was a drummer was the
Drummervo Simmons. It was Yes and Simmons. And when we
did do those places, one time I remember, so Pig
meet Markham was the main act and they would have
us on. Yeah, and when we did the the Apollo,

(09:38):
you know amateur stuff you had Moms Mayblee or Etta
James where the acts that came in or Salmon Dave
were the headliners and came on Amateur Night and did
our think and people enjoyed us. How many shows we
used to do? The problem was seven shows a night
or something that seven shows a day? Yeah, yeah, day.
So you would do Amateur Night each time around or

(10:01):
was it at some point where you guys were sort
of out of Amateur Night and just a featured act.
Where's the Amateur Night? It was then? And then we
then we would do the talent shows and the Five
stair Steps. They we had a rivalry, but I guess
between us and the Five Stairsteps, and Michael cried, Michael
cry his butt off because you know, sometime before that
came on before us, you know, the crowd started throwing

(10:23):
eggs at them and stuff. I think that they were there,
and Michael cry, if they're gonna do the same thing
to him? We try the comments and Mike just do
your thing. Everything's gonna be okay. You know, he would
cry like a baby because he didn't want them throwing
eggs on him on stead grabbing a hook and hooking
him off. Say that's what that's what they did. That's
what they did, man, Sam's I was gonna say, um,

(10:46):
I know that. Well, of course everyone knows the legend
of the Apollo, But for those other spots that were
in the Chilan circuit, like uh, either the Regent or
the Uptown in Philly or the Fox in Detroit, was
it also the same way like if you were new
you were someone booing you off the stage or anything,

(11:07):
or was that just the Apollo? Why could you relax
if you if you were at Chicago or any other place?
It was more so as Paulo. But they believe if
you're not good Regal theater and wherever of town, they're
gonna boot you. You know. But but people don't play
you know though, no, no, no, yeah, we never got

(11:35):
the boo yeah, so uh, we were scared of the books.
So we did the best that we could do Withoo
Tito the world kind of news the story of of
you discovering your your father's guitar. But I always wanted
to know how was Jermaine able to learn the base

(11:59):
was Is it a similar situation like who taught him
how to play the basis? Well, I gave Jermane based
guitar lessons on the base, based notes on the guitar,
she said, because when my father bought in the second guitar,
he started playing the guitar that I was sneaking from
my father and I was showing, you know, the little

(12:20):
things on the on the on the guitar, but it
was based stuff. So he was playing bass on the
guitar because as you know, the first four STREI first
four strings, right, yes, the same same thing. Yeah. And
then what he did he started studying James Jamieson Motown
because he listened to the Motown songs and he started

(12:40):
studying James Jamieson. He was he used to play just
like h Jermaine and a young kid. He I mean,
he had it down, you know, singing and playing at
the same time. Okay, So before you guys went to Motown,
you were on uh steel Town. What was the story
of Steeltown? Like? Who owned the label? How did you
guys wind wind up recording a single for them? Were

(13:05):
still Town was just a local record company? Gary, and
we really didn't. I guess we were so young we
didn't know. We didn't know a lot. My father's basically
who took us and was controlled all the activities of
the little boys at that time, because when we were really,
really young, I remember seeing a picture of the band

(13:29):
recording the song I'm a Big Boy Now, and we
were all quite small, those kids, you know, and it
just had one take and that was it. I mean right,
it was. The budget wasn't big, It was nothing. You know,
we could have recorded this song in our in our
living room, in and out, in and out. Like you said,

(13:52):
you were so young, Like, how did you look at
all the rehearsals and all the shows and all the
and all the things you were doing. Did you did
you think it was the most fun thing you could do?
I mean, I think it it is, But but at
the time, did you think that what we had when
they say keepers of the dream, we really had dreams.

(14:14):
We all wanted to, uh be like Jackie Wilson and
James Brown and attempts. We wanted to be entertain the stars.
We wanted to go to Holly, California or wherever the
stars lived and see it was fun too, that's the
main thing. We had a lot of fun along the journey.

(14:37):
But we never realized what the mark was making in
the world when we were younger, because we were constantly busy,
and that we would go to different parts of the
world and and get back to school and we can
tell the class everything about the place. But don't don't

(14:57):
get us wrong. There were times that we didn't want
to be trust me, we'd rather be outside playing. And
the kids used to laugh at us sometime and tell
us you're not gonna get anywhere, and and you know
with the rehearsing, but my father, you know, make sure
that we rehearsed before we did anything. Rehearse We used
to take breaks sometime and watch Batman or the Green
Hornet and back to rehearsal. And you watched the Three Students,

(15:20):
that's what. Yeah, Yeah, we watched him. Don't go three students. Yes,
we did pay any sports in school. We played a
lot of basketball baseball because the baseball field was right
behind our house and if we weren't doing music was
playing baseball. Most of the time. That's what we did. Cricket,

(15:41):
cricket in the alley, Yes, cricket. Wait, black people play cricket. Yeah, yeah,
we played ghetto cricket, but we played it this fate
to tell them how the game goes. One. We used
to set up like three cans on the ground at

(16:03):
each end, and we had a stick. We all had
sticks into bat. Either you throw at the can or
you roll it and you hit the ball and you
go back and forth counting, and whoever got to a
certain point a certain number one won the game. And
it gave you skills because Jackie and Jermaine and you know,
they used to try to see if they can hit

(16:25):
it all the way to the other field over the fence,
and they did. And you can imagine someone running trying
to get that ball and throw it back. And if
you steak it up and then knock down your cans,
just that these the other teams turned to come up
and take a back m That's what we did outside
of moving cylinder brons from one end of the yard

(16:47):
to the other end of the yard. Uh. We chore that.
My father gave us. Yeah yeah, Christian to be called
know well when we saw that on uh the American Dream,

(17:08):
I guess Jackie had to keep moving the bricks. What
was that like just something to keep you occupied for
an hour or so, or keep us occupied us keep
us from the gangs. Okay. And it took all day.
It took all day. It take no hour, It took
all day. And Michael and I couldn't pick up one,
so the two of us carried one. And uh, yeah,

(17:31):
he would make us when I get home from work,
I want to see those bricks from that end of
the yard to wear that the yard. Wow. Okay, So
explained to me the environment that was Gary, Indiana in
the mid sixties, like what is what is your father
trying to keep you from? What is what is outside
of street where they were gangs then lurking to recruit

(17:55):
new young members. And I guess my father felt that
that with my sons were not be a member of
those games. So he kept us occupied and and and
we did go out and play sometime in the streets,
hide and seek or whatever. But majority of the times
we uh, we were working moving those bricks around or rehearsing.

(18:17):
But there were games sometime. And Jackie and Tito can
elaborate on this more. Because I was still in the
elementary school. No now, there was a lot of games
around and Gary, there was they were shooting. You can
be uh on your porch at night because the ladies
of the neighborhood, meaning the mothers, we get together, you know,

(18:41):
say mosquitoes are bad. So they have barberish can fire
going and joined the smoke keeping. And all of a
sudden you started here pop cars speeding down the street
and people started running and duck in. So there was
a lot of gang activity around. But the games, the
gates never didn't mess with us. They always protected us.

(19:02):
When we walked through the games, they were yeah, you guys, Yeah, well,
I guess we're making some positive noise. I guess I
don't know. Okay, all right, were you guys first generation Gary,
Indiana or were your parents from there as well? I
don't remember. No, no, no, my parents aren't from there,

(19:25):
but they were first generation from Gary. Yeah, okay, so
where were your parents? I'm just curious. I never my
mother's from from Arkansas, and now my father's from Arkansas.
My mother from Alabama. What city? She she's Obama girl. Yeah,
you know, I think I don't. I think it's hurts

(19:45):
borrom like damn it. Okay, I thought was a mobile Columbus.
Either way, her childhood wasn't so sweet. My father from
little Ross okay a little I read um once that
your that your mom. She was like a country western singer,
that she was the same country. Yeah. What happened was

(20:07):
with that. You know at that time, you know, our
television broke and wouldn't have money to get it fixed,
you know, so we were, uh, we were seeing she
was an avid country western fans. He loved country western music. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
different people and uh we was harmonized with her, singing
with her, you know, and uh because no television, we're

(20:29):
singing with her. And she came to my father one
day said, Joe, your boys can really see they can herbanize.
He said he didn't, he said so she said, Joe,
they they really can sing. So he so see, you know,
we sang for him and he got all excited. That's
when he started buying in going out buying instruments for us,

(20:50):
all the instruments. So when you guys were kids, was
he gigging at all or was that part of his
life done with? Because I know that he did a
few you when he had a little local band called
the Falcons. He had a band himself and here they
would come over to the house and play with his
brother played guitar and he played guitar, and we used

(21:11):
to watch them play all the time. Suddenly just watched
them this gig and so us. They were like big
professionals and we watched them all the time and they
would play at the house. It was great watching them play,
and that's how we learned about music and just listening
to all the Motown songs on the radio and stuff
like that, you know, and sliding the family stone. Yeah,
sliding everybody. It's amazing. So Marlon, I knew that you

(21:35):
brought it up earlier, but I've always heard about the
legend of Mr. Lucky's, which I guess it was like
sort of like your home spot. But what yeah, what
was Mr Lucky been a strip club today or like, No,
it wasn't a strip club. It was a little nightclub
that was Garinana, Canada, and they paid us. We get

(21:56):
paid eight dollars for our first show, Yeah, the Lucky
That was the first gig that we got paid and
we were so happy about it. I mean, but eight
dollars back in those days take you a long way.
And that's those were the shows and Markin, Michael Marlin
would they would throw money on the floor and they
would do the splits and grab the money, and and
Marlin and Tito I and Jamaine would be because they're

(22:20):
getting all the money we weren't getting on there. You know,
we've we've heard different accounts, but I've never heard it
from you guys. Verbat him. I mean, I've talked to
Gladdys Night and she told me she was the one.
And then Tommy Chong of that, you know, Bobby Bobby

(22:45):
in the Vancouver's. I didn't know that he wrote um
because you guys did a cover of it. I didn't
know that he wrote does your does your mamma know about?
I didn't know that Damn Cheach and Chong like Motown
or Tommy Cheng Motown legends. So what is what is
the real story? I know that I know the angle,
but who literally made it happen? Yes, I'm gonna introduce

(23:08):
you to this person that leads the barrier, set the
record straight. I'm gonna sit there. Well, Well, we played
a concert in Gary, Indiana and uh for a mayor
Richard Gordon Hatchet, who is no longer with us. You know,
he's at the time, and so he was campaigning at

(23:29):
the time. So Gladys Knight was his his guest there,
you know, and we have to play the same show.
So she happens she saw us on the concert. She
went back to Barry Gordon, took Barry Gordon, there's some
guys in Indiana. That's that's incredible. You gotta sign these kids.
It was glad who discovered us first, and Bobby Taylor
did the showder next year he saw us to say

(23:49):
when he went back to Barry Gordon said the same
exact thing with both of those people. But Dinna Ross
was his biggest artist. He's the one who brought us
out because he was his biggest song to introduced us
to the world marketing. It was Gladys Night and Barby
Terry was the ones who discovered us. That's true, all right,
true story. Moving moving to Los Angeles from Gary, Indiana.

(24:16):
How how much of a fish out of water situation
was that for you guys as far as uh watching
with the world that you see on television, which is
how much? Because I used to watch all the football games,
and all the football games we got Chicago Bears, we
got Cleveland Browns, and snowing outside freeze and then they

(24:37):
were showing in an afternoon game. There was show saying
they go Chargers. Also just rams. Right, So I'm watching TV.
I'm in the snow freezing my buttle, and I don't
watch the TV saying all these people. They show the
palm trees and show the people in the stands having
a great time. I said, that's where I want to go.
I want to go to Los Angeles. I don't know
how I'm gonna get there, but that's where I'm going

(24:57):
to go. That's where I want to live. That's what
I said to about So I don't know how I
was gonna Yeah, I don't know how it's going to
get there, And some kind of way we will signed
with Motown and Berry going to decided to move his
office over to Los Angeles because he was to get
into the film business, you know. So he moved his

(25:18):
whole entire office from Detroit. He still had office, he
still had all of us in Detroit, but he moved
his operation to Los Angeles, California, and he brought us
over there with it. Was there ever, talking of you
guys moving to Detroit. First, To be a matter of fact,
we did go to Detroit. It was in Detroit recording
our music first and then we went on to it
was how long how long were we in Detroit? About

(25:39):
a year or two years guys recording it? About a year.
We signed with We signed with Motown in nineteen sixty eight,
but we told everybody, and people didn't believe it was
because we didn't have any music out over a year
before we even got in the studio. Yeah, longer than that,
mong Okay, So some of that first album was recorded

(25:59):
at the Hitchfield studio. Yeah, yes, a lot of it, Yeah,
a lot of it. The Tempts and all of them
would come around. We would see all those casts, all
those people will come around and give us all kinds
of support. And he was saying hello to us, and
Jermaine was trying to hit on Berry Gordy's door at
the time. Jermaine's you know you succeeded. Yes, Yes, what

(26:27):
one question I had? If I'm Jackie, you the oldest,
you may have the best memory of it. Um. I
was always curious to know about the corporation, Um, Freddy
Perry and Larry Mizelle. Um, do you have any working
with those guys? Deep Richards. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They
had just got out they had just got out college

(26:48):
from Howard University, just graduate from Howard University. And they
were incredible. They were incredible musician songwriters. And Barry Gordy
put them with us and if we used to we
used to laugh at pretty par it pumps myself because
they were We would go into the studio. We see
them and they're on a little mope head scooter, two
of them, right, yeah, you know, yeah, we pass them

(27:23):
up on the street and they were coming to the studio,
but they had two hit. Not a lot of are
especially um from a hip hop perspective. I mean, I
don't think a lot of people, uh, our contemporaries even
equate that, you know, the Mazell Brothers, they're there are

(27:44):
seventies Cattles and all the stuff that they did on
Blue Note Records, you know, with Donald Bird and even
the stuff they did with like a Taste of Honey
and all that stuff. Like, I don't think they even
equate that these are the same guys that also wrote
I Want You Back, I Want You Back in all
those things to love yeah and all that. Oh yeah,
they were incredible and they don't even know that their

(28:04):
nephew was Jim mr J from Run DMC. They never
put two and two together with that. But yeah, so yeah,
I was gonna say, when you first get to Motown,
what is what is the basic uh work operation? As
far as you guys learning songs? Because let me but

(28:24):
let me let me bag it up for you. I
think you'll find it interesting. From from from Gary, Indiana.
We went to Detroit to audition for Barry Cordy, right,
and so we did a lot of Motown songs. And
so Barry had this huge house, had a golf course

(28:45):
in the backyard, and the back nine he had indorsed
swimming pool. You go down downstairs for a day, all
the gangs, and so we get into Michael and I
planned in the pool having a great time. Jackie walking
around biting his nails. Damn they ate up his fingers
because he was so nervous, and he used to get
after Michael and I. This is serious, guy, this is

(29:07):
our chance. Y'all fooling around playing with all the games
and stuff. Get serious. I mean we were kids, not
a sudden we get ready to do our show. Well, no,
he was all of us went back all of our
equipment was set up around the pool. Yeah, Jackie, let
me back up because we had already auditioned from Motown

(29:30):
the day before. Very decided, Yeah, I want to sign
these kids. So he acts. He said, to Morrow's dinond
Ross's birthday. I'm having a party for her at my
house and I want you guys to perform. And so
we were on the at this party. Tell him who
was at the party? Mark. We were around the pool, right,

(29:53):
and we do a lot of more times, and all
of a sudden, I see Marvin Gate come to the temps.
The temp walked through to do it. Stevie Wonder, Smokey Robinson,
the four Times come through to do it, and we
just gotta sting their song because that's all the songs

(30:13):
we knew. That's all the big hits on the radio.
We didn't have any new original material. So we're seeing
all these Motown songs in front of come in, you know,
and this is the first time you meet. Yeah, that's
the first time we've met. Yeah, first time, and this
is their first time seeing us, and we're doing this stuff.

(30:37):
I assume that the show went well, because you're here
right now. I'm talking about it, Yes, trial by fire.
How much older were guys like Marvin Gay and Smokey
than you at that time? All they had about fifteen,
ten and fifteen years? Yes, ste was kind of a peer,
right kind of Yeah, yeah, I think Jackie, you were

(30:58):
like fifteen or sixty at the time. Oh, I heard
your sister mentioned that Stevie actually might be related to
you guys. Is that true? He's on my mom's side
of Yes, why did you all find this out? A
lot of people don't know that first cousin seconds, you

(31:20):
gotta ask my mom. But all this is to me,
this is funny because we were we were somewhere and
Stevie tells some uh and I was talking with Stevie
this is my my father's funeral. And then then all
the way he told he said, Amelia, give Mom and
my numbers since we cuse he called four in the

(31:44):
morning as well. He's a world it's for him calls. Yeah.
We we you know, I've been We've been blessed. We
had some great times. You know, it's what you do
with that time and how you treat it. And we
we've had some great times. Okay, I'm sorry, I gotta
follow up on this. So did you and Stevie? Did you,

(32:05):
guys and Stevie wanted to know you were cousins back
then or did this come up recently? No, we did
not know. A matter of fact, Stevie did a couple
of songs on us during the Motown days and and uh,
we didn't know that we were cousins. And those songs
that Stevie did on us, they were never released, you know.
And I think butter no butter Cup having but not

(32:29):
that you have not nothing nothing song that's one is
talking about. Well, I know what Jerman took. You're supposed
to keep your love for me from the original checks?
Was there any other besides butter Cup You're supposed to
keep your love from me? I think there was one
or two more others I forgot. Man, we did so

(32:50):
many songs. Motown got so many songs that we we
can when I hear something, we did that right, we
lived in the studio. That's what I want to get
to you, guys. I've seen at least the Moortown vaults.
I've seen them and seeing the catalogs, and to me,
it is staggering. How big is please? You know? I mean,

(33:14):
you know it was over two hundred songs. But the
thing is like they're two hundred completed songs and half
the stuff didn't see the light of day. So like,
what is can you walk me through how you guys
get like do you have like mere seconds to learn it?
Do you at least get a work tape at night
before to figure out your arrangements? Like how we walked

(33:37):
through to we go in the studio, they put to school,
if we go out to school, the studio recording the
studio right and the recording studio was right around the corner.
But facts and half the kids at the school never
knew that we were going through the recording study recording
I Want You Back ABC. They didn't know that. Not

(33:58):
even a block away we votive was recordings to him
record these songs, and they put up the track and
we learn it and singing and all that. We pretty
much do a song to day. But we came back
to finish it the next day. They really really completed
finish it the next day. It took us a while,
a day and a half to finish the whole song.
That's what because we had and the reason being is

(34:19):
that we were youngsters and we had a social worker
that came with us, so she made sure that they
didn't work us over three hours, so they only we
only had three hours to Yes, you did all that
work in the three hours. Yeah. Yeah, that's a lot
of songs. And Michael were going there, and Michael and

(34:40):
ad lib and do his own aut lips and he
made all that stuff at the all of us and
lives at the end of that's him. They didn't tell
him that he made up all that stuff. Wow, that's
exhaust So yeah, So and that was that was almost
every day. Yeah, the weekends, Yeah, even the weekends. Weekends
were longer. Yeah. So the next day we come back

(35:03):
to school on Monday, and uh, we're on the Sullivan
Show and all we come back to school and all
the kids noticed that, wait, a man, he's at the Jackson's.
They noticed us being on the Sullivan Show. We go
back to school the next day, I'm in the classroom
and all of a sudden, I'm in the classroom, sitting
in the classroom. I know all these kids from all

(35:25):
the other schools to come come to come to Fairfax
High School from all other kids come over and just screaming.
After the screol like pandemonium, and the kids wanted, what's
going on? Why are they screaming? Where they saw me
in the classroom and they started screaming like crazy. They
didn't know we were the Jackson They did not not you. Now,
let me tell you something. This is my first time

(35:47):
hearing Jackie's story about that. And I have to say,
Michael and I we were going to Emerson Junior High
School and we were the same. Thing happened to us
and to the point that kids started going crazy and
they had to pull us out of school because we
were disruption class the whole school, and they put us

(36:07):
in private school. So you went to a regular school first.
We went to regular No other contemporaries of yours were
in like Fairfax High none of these things. No, we
went I went to when I when we got here,
nobody knew who the Jackson five were. So I went
to Bancroft Junior High. Michael went to Gardener, I mean
my garden Gardener Gardener Elementary School. Then the year Michael

(36:32):
and I went went over to Emerson Junior High. We
only was able to go for two weeks because we
were disrupting the classes and the kids were going crazy. Wow,
So you didn't get uh, so, what's the like in
private school? Is it more different because all of you
are industry kids or we were going to school with

(36:55):
with some of the main celebrity kids. They would go
to the same school with us, and even well, this
is a funny story, John McClean to if you know
who John McClean is, wa, this is what you don't get.
The most elusive we've been dying to get on the show,

(37:18):
John McClean, Oh so, John, So John to tell his story.
He said his mom brought him to this private school
and he said, Mom, I don't go here. I don't
want to go I don't want to go here. And
John said, all of a sudden, he's he lives that.
Tito Jackson, Wait, hey mom, I'm fine, I'm fine because

(37:51):
of y'all popularity? Did everybody have to go to the
special school now? Like the girls too? And I don't
know Randy was here by now, But did everybody just
have to eventually they did? Yes, Yes, they did eventually. Yeah,
but you know it's it's that's what took place, that's
what happened with us. It's um, you know, I know

(38:17):
that your parents concerns over gang culture in Indiana was
one thing. But most of us that don't live in
Los Angeles, most of us, especially when you're thinking of
like for young black people, like gang culture was a
part of life, Like, how is that avoided? Well, my
father made sure, I mean, he laid down the law.

(38:40):
That's it. We had to be inside before the street
lights came on. That supposed to be supposible. He said, yeah,
that's what it's supposed to. That's the same thing. You
bet I get caught us I would do the street lights.
So so, okay, was it still okay? What was the

(39:03):
chores situation at the house was that? Yeah? I mean
I'm certain that you said we had to Oh yeah,
we had to. We we had chores. We had chores.
We had to wash the dishes. Even even after we
made it with the Jackson five and came out, we
still had chores. Well, y'all still lived in the house together, right,

(39:24):
So yeah, So it was I think Michael and I
week to do the dishes. Jackie and somebody else had
a week, somebody you know had a week. Ye there, Yeah,
we had chores. Is the family residents still uh? In Cino?
Is that still where your mother? Yeah, but we were

(39:46):
on Queen's Road. Yeah, we were on Queen's and we
first got here. We were on Queen's Road. Well, we
first stayed at the Tropicana Motel WHI on Santa Monicas
that on Santa Manica, Litle Santa Monica or something like that.
And when I got there, the first time I got

(40:07):
the cow Loos Sanders, I couldn't believe how people were living.
Almost crying, I said, mayn't even living like this all
all my life? Live living this good life like this
and driving ferraris and rural roses down the street. I
mean it was just amazing. I mean, people living in
the hills and the palm trees and you know what
I'm saying. And I'm in Gary the annim freezing my

(40:28):
off and these people living like this. We did that.
We lived in the Tropic Canda for a while and
then M believe, before we went to Queen's Road, you know,
we lived with Dinna Ross. Yeah, and she she had
she had a house with white carpet everywhere and white

(40:51):
walls and I think some of the furnitures white. And
she she she told up the house with us. We
all too that the pint on the wall, paint the walls. Like.
She was like, yeah, yeah, we had fun. Yeah they
all had a lot of money, but you've had a
lot of movie Black Woman's House like that. Yeah. I

(41:16):
was like for the other side of the story. Mary
Wilson would come over to the house. It was so
kind of so Mary would come over, you know, for
how's my babies. So we you know, we were young kids,
but we had fun and they made sure that we
had fun too. I mean, you know, they used to

(41:37):
pick us up and take us to the movie sometime
down By the fact, Donald Ross picked Michael and I
a when she first had a first baby, and this
is where she lived on Maple and Beverly Hills, and
we all went upstairs. We will all went upstairs and
she wanted us to paint some drapes because she was
having a baby, her first kid. So we painted the

(41:58):
drapes and do figures on it for the for the kid,
and we had a great time. You know, we're well,
I want to know from from Tito and Jackie because
you two are older, I guess in my mind because
I see the Jackson's as kind of the first family

(42:20):
of post civil rights movement, like all the struggle that
happened before, Like you guys are the first to flourish
and too post civil rights activity. But you guys are
also teenagers in Los Angeles and you're successful at that.
So I'm certain that there's also moments where, like you're

(42:42):
in situations in which you're the only black person there,
or you're driving an elaborate car that normally isn't you know,
associated with people that look like you. Like how how
hard was it to navigate in Los Angeles as teenagers
where it's not so cute? I mean, it's one thing

(43:03):
when it's like Marlon and Michael, who are like eleven
twelve younger? Was it different for a young black teenager
in nineteen seventy three, seventy four, like the first half
of the seventies. I had an experience uh once uh
uh when I was about I wasn't my late teens

(43:25):
or early twenties, and I had got myself of the
Mercedes three. Say I I think it wasn't. That's when
I had stopped to get gasoline from my autobile. And
this is the time when they put gas in your car.
You didn't have to do it. They do it for you,

(43:46):
and I pull in that. I said, what do you want?
I said, fill it up? And can you check the oil?
So so I pulled the lever for the thing, and
you know, all are you know there's two levers. There's
one outside as well. So I yankee and I was like,
who whoa, whoa? Let me let me. So I go

(44:08):
out and show him how to do things too. He
slams my hood then um pose pumps my gas and
drill gas all on the side of my my car
and then takes Then I go inside and I noticed
he's calling it on my credit card. So I told him,
I said, King, I don't want to pay for the service.

(44:30):
So he goes to the people and he goes wait
a minute. He goes to a drawer, pulls out a gun,
holds it to my head and says, signs of course
I signed. I signed it. I immediately. This is before
cell phones. I go to a stop as a phone.
Both call our security Bill Braid, who's a detective. He

(44:52):
rushes out to Chatsworth where I was immediately and go
to the police station, actually playing the story to them.
They go over to the station, picks up the guy
and come back. And then they tell us that if
we if we arrest this this man, we're gonna have

(45:13):
to rest Mr Jackson too for not for refusing the
paper service. So the guy walked. That's that's how that's
how it is. Yep, of course it was. And this guy,
I guess he wasn't used to seeing the young black
guy of color, whether he's young or not. You know,
it was such a nice automobile because back then those

(45:36):
Mercedes were very high items. And I was only nineteen
driving one. So but my my story is is a
little different. This is we had a TV show, The
Jackson Show, and yeah, and you know, and we lived
in the Cino and a lot of time and we

(45:57):
were shooting that shows somewhere and not at the CBS slot,
but somewhere else. So I will come through Beverly Hills
and over the hill to go home, and and my
first car was a Porsche, a Porsche, and the police
saw me driving, so he pulls me over. Mm and
he walks up to the car and said, um, is

(46:18):
this your car? I said yes, He said, uh, driver's
license such and such. I gave it to him. He
sees Encino on it. Uh, why are you going home
this way? And I'm looking like, what do you mean
when I'm going home this way? Yeah, you can go
home any kind of way you want to. And who says,

(46:39):
I'm going home right? And then he said and then
and then he says, well, where you get the money
to buy a car like this from? And I tell him,
you know, I'm an artist, I do records and whatever.
And he wrote me up some phony take wrote me
up a ticket for it. Whatever it said. I gave
it to our people to take care of. But I think, Jackie,

(47:02):
all of us used to get pulled over all the time,
acting us. Uh, I got a real funny story for
you after this. Used to uh used to give us
tickets and pull us over just to harass us. But
here's my real funny story. This story is so funny
that I could Jackie, you know, don't get it. Tail.

(47:23):
So Michael's first car was a Rose Royce. He was
he was a team. But Michael Michael, he parked anywhere
he didn't know. So one day I'm he didn't care.
I'm driving down the street. I thought it was so funny.
I'm driving down street. The police got Michael handcuffed to

(47:45):
a bench because he had a lot of parking tickets.
He just stopped. They never heard that story. Journalists are

(48:06):
asking the wrong questions. Yeah, yeah I did. But you
can't say you couldn't say too much. And and they
let they let him go after it. I mean, you know,
it's back in those days. You could she could say,
pull up the street and you just look from behind
in the mirror, right. Tell him the story when we

(48:28):
went down to Alabama, uh, my mother's Uh. They took Michael.
He went to this, Michael went to this yeah, down south.
Tell him what happened down Yeah, yeah, Mike. Because Mike,
Michael got like antiques. So the security was with him.
So Bill said, I'm gonna go to the restaurant right quick.

(48:48):
And the owner of the store, I don't know if
he called the police whatever. He thought Michael was trying
to steal stuff out of the story. He didn't know
who he was, and I think he and he got
a gun and then Bills and they took Michael somewhere
and were looking for Michael and looking for Michael. Jackie.
I didn't forgot some of this stuff. He took Michael

(49:10):
to the back room somewhere and tied him down. Michael's
in the back room somewhere like in the place. This
in the back ship. This is like, this is like
in late seventies. Yeah, we're looking all over and Michael
and they had him tied down in the back ship.
It's almost like the clam was gonna take come away

(49:30):
and somewhere you know what I'm saving Yeah, yeah, O
my god. The story started with Alabama. Yeah, so we're
looking for Michael all over the place and this guy
had him tied down the back room and this was

(49:51):
like an antique stuff full of books that all kind
of ANTIQ because Michael like the old stuff. He like
buying stuff like that. And then they took him. They
thought he was trying to steal something and he took
him in the back room. When we went in the store,
we couldn't find him. He was in some mother's kind
of ship behind behind that store. He was in another
kind of back Yeah. Yeah, we gotta release and it

(50:15):
realized school was but we didn't. We didn't. We let
it go. We didn't put it in the press. We
let it you know, I say, we let yeah. And
if it wasn't him until now, right, it was any
other Jackson right, Michael Johnson right, speaking speaking of Bill Bray.
So I came across this. It's like raw footage of

(50:36):
a concert. I mean, I guess it was the Destiny era.
But um, I was just looking at this footage and
I'm noticing that the way that security is handled is
not like it is now. Like there was no separation
gate or something. The whole fans back like basically fans

(50:58):
were one inch away from, you know, climbing on stage.
And there's a point where I guess Bill Brady is
giving you guys like a pep talk backstage on you
know what my signals are. How often did you guys
have to prematurely cut a show? Oh man, all the time?

(51:21):
So getting through a show was actually a hard thing
to do. Yeah, it was It was it a song
that popped him off? Or was it just like the
moment you stepped on stage, the moment step on stage,
the moment they said, the moment they said eyes on
me in the morning. It was paying the morning, you know,

(51:48):
and believe it, believe it or not. There was a
few times where we had bumped threats, you know, and
at one time they did find a bomb under the stage.
They brought in the police dogs and all that stuff.
So it's, you know it it's just been different. So
it's it's it's been different. We've been through a bunch
of weeks ago to shows and armor trucks because even

(52:12):
on the visual tool we had death threats. We sure did. Really, yeah,
y'all brave for a bunch of fucking musicians. What was
what was the decision to not? I mean, you know,
we live in a time now where you know, especially
in social media, just everything is transparent and there's you know,

(52:35):
nothing that's not revealed. What was the decision and not
ever releasing these stories that things have happened for fear
that copycats might try to follow, or it's just never
dawned on us. We you know, it was part of
our life, and I don't know, as we talked my head,

(52:56):
it's just you know, we never tried to We weren't
crazy about putting stuff in the press and and and
those type of things. You know, we just move on
with our life and keep going. I remember one time,
long time ago, uh and chats Worth again, chess Worth, California.
My kids were at a park and my son Drew

(53:17):
into grass and a whole bunch of people stood up
and they were the KKK and uh and some other
friend came in, and my wife and Jackie's wife and
I jumped in the car car and took off. They
came with bats and chains and and somebody called the

(53:37):
police and said there was a bunch of black ladies
with afro weeks. I'm a huge afros and and driving
into Mercedes down the streets fly and none of them
had not none of them had an afro. But they
just saw the color of skin and they just said
afrol and and it was crazy. It was they they

(54:00):
were coming after to kill him. They were having a picnic,
and they jumped in the car, got all this stuff
and just took off. And these are guys with chains
and bats coming after females. Were you guys able to
like share these situations and lean on some of your peers,
because I'm sure y'all weren't the only ones going through
stuff at the time, Like who do y'all talk to

(54:21):
about how to navigate all this stuff at that time
of your lives? Not to mention you got parents from
the South, But still sometimes we take care of it ourselves,
like the bow. That's what sets it. Asked answer this

(54:54):
question when he came before. Who who is the first
jackson to pop off the tito? You said, Jermaine the jackson.
Uh too to fight? I would bug Jermane on the
Mama start. He started to fight. He started to fight me,
fighting to run home and tell Mama, I'm fighting. Wait, Marley,

(55:23):
I have a question. So one of one of my
favorite Jay five albums was to Get It Together, and
in particular, I mean I realized it now when I
when I was older that that was accellent. No, no, no, uh, Mama,
the cover of Mama got random new think. Don't say no,

(55:44):
I'm realizing that's you singing on it. How are you guys? Uh?
What would you? What were you saying? Fante, I'm having
lost words. You call it the the operation of the
division labor, Division of labor? Yeah, what what is the
division of labor? As far as who gets what part
or no, Well, that song was was produced by Howard Davis,

(56:09):
so he would tell us who's going to sing this,
who's gonna sing that, who's gonna sing this? Even in
the corporation, You're gonna sing this part. You're gonna sing
this part and that's how and that's what we did
when it, you know, and and that's what that's what
we did. And um, did you sing on any other
Jackson songs that didn't make it? Or like I think

(56:32):
body Language is another one that I sang on to
not she said that didn't make it? He said, but
he quest has been so long ago. I got c
R S. Remember that CRS disease. I should do you know,

(57:01):
after after after you get past fifty you know stuff,
come and go? Can I ask can I ask you
a dancering question that I that you may remember? I
mean that wait wait wait wait, that don't mean on
my answer. Somebody the moment right now, right for real,
for real. Mark Marlin was the of the moment right now,

(57:25):
that too. But I was gonna ask you, like you're
dancing story, like you talked about you and Michael being
fans of Jackie Wilson and being a fan of the dance.
But I'm just curious, like as you evolved, as dance evolved,
like who are some of the folks that you started
looking to like we we believe it not we used
to watch James Brown, like you said, Jackie Wilson we
used to watch for the Stair Gene Kelly Ginger Rodgers. No, no, look, no, no,

(57:51):
we want tip. We were walking on our toes now
st Let me tell Jackie. Jackie I got so so
one day, you know, Michael said, Mama, come come pick
me up. I don't feel like driving to the studio.
I said, okay, I'm gonna come get you. And we
drove Micro's car. His Rosy here not in the car.

(58:13):
Michael said, well, Martha, I want you to go this way.
I said which way? I said, why are we going
this way? They just go this way? And then we're
going through bever Hills. He said, turned down this street.
I said that, Well, you're not going to studio, Mike.
He said, there is to drive down that, Michael. I'm
not driving down somebody's driveway. Marm just drive down the driveway.
He get out the car and knock on the door.

(58:35):
It was fredi Stairs house, you know, get out the car,
knocking on the door. Fredi Stairs wasn't home. I don't
know where it was. And I said, who, that's that's
where Fredi Stair lives. That's his house. And somebody answered
the door and told him that Fredi Stair wasn't home
at the time, and then we went on to the studio.
But to say this, right, just one time, what time

(59:02):
when we were in uh time? Figure out why we
were there though we were so we Richard Proude lived
in in the north Ridge, so we Michael and I
don't think I ever told you all this, Jackie. So Michael,
now we stopped. We went to Richard Pride's house. Right,
We're not gonna do he come in. He's talking to us.
And what was so funny to me that we're leaving

(59:22):
and and Richie goes to us. He said, yeah, that
that's the Mercedes I shot the tides out of when
she tried to where she tried to Uh remember that
I was also asking like after for this there like

(59:43):
as the time went on, was the seventies and eighties?
Were the other folks too that you were like? Because
I know Michael implemented new styles and dancing form into
his thing. But Marlon, I mean, I know you do
your thing. I've seen you still do your thing trying
to do something. Can I add to that question, did
you guys work with Charlie Atkins at all? No? Never did.

(01:00:05):
Who's the choreographer for the Jackson five. Jackie. In the
very beginning, we got assistance from Susanne to ask uh
she have uh choreographs some of the I want you
back stuff, that Sullivan stuff. But after that is basically
even before that, it has always been the groups on

(01:00:27):
their own thing. Yeah, Jackie Michael and I we fool around.
Jackie Michael and I we until we realized we running
out of time. Did we said we better get serious
with this. That's that's what we did on Motown. We
spent almost two or three hours in the room talking.
We look at hey did show tomorrow? We don't have
any choreography for Wow, y'all did that the night before

(01:00:49):
y'all did that? Yes? Yeah, So my question, what was
your thoughts? This movie means the world to us, but
to y'all. You know the v H one American Jackson's
American Yeah music. You gotta ask Jackie because I've never
seen it. Seriously, no, I've never seen it. I've never

(01:01:13):
seen it made me too all right, I've ever seen it.
But can I tell you something. My father wasn't like that.
He they made him like he was so, I mean,
he wasn't like that. They like a real bad guy
and he was not like that. Yeah, it's for the movie.

(01:01:38):
I mean my father disciplined us because he had six boys,
you know, and around gangs like that. He wasn't like that.
But a matter of fact, that's how we learned how
to dance. I was I was going to ask all
that too, just particularly about your dad, because you know,
he's he's past. And I was watching the other day
they showed they have a new Tiger Woods documentary this

(01:02:01):
on uh this out now, and you know there's the
kind of the telling you know what you think of
just the strict father that's just kind of driving the kids.
And your dad has always kind of been just the
symbol of just the hard, you know, disciplinary father. And
so I was just curious to know, in your guy's
own words, you know, what was that relationship like, I mean,
you know, he's been kind of demonized in a lot

(01:02:22):
of ways. But um, since his passing and just over
the years, if y'all have has if y'all as y'all
have grown his men and become fathers yourselves, Um, how
is that? How how do y'all look at yall relationship
with your dad? Now? When you realize, you know, you
go back and realize, you know, when he was doing
was right. I mean, we came from a bad neighborhood, Gary, Indiana,

(01:02:44):
and he, I mean he kept us out of out
of that situation about keeping us busy, keeping us rehearsing.
He saw we had talent, and he said, if you
want to be something, you gotta work at And that's
what he did. And back in those days, you know,
you know her parents raised kids was different. You know,
even even your neighbors, your parents, your neighbors would get you.
You know, that's how it was back in those days.

(01:03:06):
You can't do that stuff. Today's whole different. Today, it's different,
but not just the way it was back then. You know,
today today those are jokers, break their knuckles down on one. Yeah,
as parents and grandparents now, seeing the way the kids
are like disciplined, I called it. Yeah, it was. It

(01:03:31):
was a different time when I look at you know,
just when I think about, you know, your your dad,
your dad's legacy and just what he was able to
help y'all build. You know, it's just you know, whenever
I see people being real harsh about you know, men
of that time, I'm just like listen, dude, Like white
folks just ran up in the capitol. What was they
doing in nineteen fifty nine? You know, like what were

(01:03:53):
you know what I'm saying. What think about what those
guys were up against back then, trying to raise you know,
you know, all these kids keeping the trouble nine children
and working in a steel mill. Like, come the funk on, dude,
Like you gotta put that in context. You know. So
I was always and I went to the steel mill
one time, and so when my father worked, man, they
looked up that steel door and all that heating for

(01:04:16):
a keybond, and I said, oh my god, how does
he work in a place like this all the time?
I mean, I couldn't believe it. Yeah, Jackie took us home,
and want to hear see you more? It better than
being Jackie. Were you m at one point seriously trying

(01:04:38):
to consider uh a career in baseball at it all? Yeah?
Wait wait, wait wait wait wait Jackie bag that up,
not consider the white sox was looking at him. Oh wait, woman,
I didn't do that. Talk about it, Jackie. Come on, no,
matter of fact, we all played baseball, we all big

(01:04:59):
baseball players, all of us, and Um, I was a
shortstop and a picture and and they was after me
and and stuff like that. But you know, I think
I thought I made the right move by sticking with
my brothers, because the singing career last forever. You can
sing forever, you know, and you can sing with bad knees. Yeah,

(01:05:22):
but you know I did the right thing. We did
the right thing to stay with the group and stay
with the boys because I would see um, you know
often in like right on magazine or whatever the periodicals
were at the time of like, you guys actually had
your own softball team, Like how how is that arranged?
Like like celebrity softball games versus each other would just

(01:05:44):
be a thing of you calling them up or was
it like some official Yeah, we had some of the
coldest baseball teams. We had. We had really god on
our team. We had cheated on the USC and we
had the coldest And all those guys played baseball too,

(01:06:06):
you know, don't they played college baseball. We were in
the championship every year. So Billy Crystal by Billy Christians
said they're gonna get their team, him and Rob Ryan
and all of them. No, no, yeah, I need the story.
They cut big Big gonna come and play us. Boy.

(01:06:30):
You know Sam Watson. You know Sam. Anyone knows Sam Watson.
He's always in the ring all the time of the Fighters,
and said, the words are you're not supposed to say,
but only he's supposed to say it. He said, Sam Worr,
Yeah with the Fighters, you know. Yeah, Sam's on that
base but base. But Sam is a great baseball player
and he can play. Oh yeah, sounds good. Play yeah.

(01:06:55):
Because I would notice all your appearances on Soul trying
Marlon Me talk the most junk about you guys in
sports prowess and in basketball and softball. I didn't know
if that was like an actual thing, like there was
a no, I was serious, and then there's a there's
a picture somewhere. I saw Jackie playing basketball. Jackie used

(01:07:19):
to play Marvin Gate all the time at Marvin Gate's house.
Did Jackie you go one on one? He would call
me over and we play one on one? Is that
jack ain't paying no damn taxes And he wrote a
song about it. I can't pay my taxes, maybe one
of holler right. Used to play all the time, one

(01:07:42):
on one all the time at his house. He called me,
but he would push you around, Marvin playing really rough
though it's dirty, Okay, yeah, when you're in when when
you get to l a like who and and older?
Who were your peers or like who would you hang with?

(01:08:02):
Was it just in house or did you guys have
like a relationship with the Silvers or anything. We just
hunged together. We stayed in the recordings to be all.
That's all record, record record, even on Sundays. They recorded
all the time at the time, and then when we

(01:08:24):
go out and do concerts, we had a curfew, so
we had to be in bed at a certain time,
and moms will come and tell our security, I know
my dad is up in the wind them Jackson acurucly.
I can guarantee you it ain't we what I'm Jackson's.
They might be with one of them band members, but
they ain't with none of them Jackson's because I just
did bad check and they all our very first, our

(01:08:48):
very first big concert. Mhm, you know where it was, Mama,
the very first big concert. You know where? It was
at the form with with no I'm talking about that one,
the very first big one. Guess where it was Philadelphia Spectrum, Philadelphia.
He said, That's where it was, remember man, the first

(01:09:10):
big startup. That's where Philadelphia, That's where it was there. Okay,
so there's there's a folklore tale. UM. One of the
most famous graffiti writers in Philadelphia's name is corn Bread.
The legend of corn Bread is like the places that
he would tag his his name. And the reason why

(01:09:30):
that Philadelphia show, the reason why I know about it,
even though I wasn't old enough to know about it,
is that, Um, somehow corn Bread had managed to tag
the Jackson five airplane with his name, which basically set
his legend into like the graffiti world, like he tagged

(01:09:51):
the Jackson five airplane from their Philadelphia spectrum. Yeah, yeah, no,
I mean he's still living off that foclore right now.
He's like sixty three years old. He finally signed a
jacket for me after decades of big and for it. UM,
I want to ask about the move to epic. You know,
between there's sort of that period in which past the

(01:10:15):
beginning stage of Motown where you guys are putting the
Vegas Act together about to um do the Variety Show,
and of course you moved to fully international epic. What
what was basically I mean, were you guys trying to
develop your music even before then, Like, were you guys

(01:10:38):
writing actively writing and producing by that point or yeah,
we have. We learned so much, you know by then
with all the Motown writers and the producers. It's like
going to school there anyways that you learned so much
to teach you at the same time, and all the
wonderful hits that we had with Motown, what do you

(01:10:58):
put us on the mouth? Very guardian, the whole crew
and crewl of writers, just amazing what you done for us.
And at that time our contract is running out, we
felt that we it was time for us to start
writing some some of our music because at that time
we felt the Meets was tim of young ABC and
a little bit kind of kind of bubble Grammers, but

(01:11:19):
it was a top of music that was geared to
everybody to love. But we decided it's time let's just
start writing some music, you know. So we decided to
no longer side with Mongtown, to go to another label
where we can show them our ability to write songs
and also produced records. So they put us with Camel

(01:11:40):
and Huff, you know, and uh, we were so excited
to be with those guys, because those guys were known
for writing hits on groups like Tador, Penagrass and the
O Jay. You just the list goes on and on
Cowboys the Girls. That's my favorite Cowboys the Girl. But
what's saving that group and true to you should we

(01:12:02):
figured that we if we get put the Jackson Kid
with gamerl and Huff, it's over with. It's gonna be
big time. You know what I'm saying. So what are
your thoughts on those albums? Now? Like now over time?
Because incredible, incredible man, Gamble and Huff we got there.
We spent time just talking and talking and we did
a whole album in two weeks. In two weeks. Man, Well,

(01:12:25):
I will say my favorite material is still I mean
the Gamble love stuff. I mean this, enjoy yourself and
show you what I mean those classes. But for me personally, man,
I just love when y'all wrote your own stuff like
that was that's that's that's it with jamming, just like
y'all y'all doing your own material. Man, that it was
just it was great. So we wrote, you know, first
we wrote two we wrote two songs on the on

(01:12:47):
the album. Then we gam wrote the rest and two songs,
and all of a sudden they gave us a whole
album started writing because you know, I guess, I guess, yeah, yeah,
I was gonna say. Um, my elementary school was right
next door to Philly International, so oftentimes, like first second grade,

(01:13:10):
I see you guys running to your car on Broad Street. Yeah,
my my. I went to a performing arts school which
was if Philly International. I think it was three ten
Broad Street. My school was three thirteen, So oftentimes you'd
see like Teddy penderg you'd see everyone outside. But you know,
of course I knew when the Jacksons were in proximity

(01:13:33):
because every girl in that school just run outside, and
it's like the Jackson's must be next store or something.
But um, I asked that question about the seventies because um,
it just hit me. Can you tell me who the
group M d l T was? Because I collect a
lot of records, and probably one of the highest price

(01:13:54):
forty fives that someone trying to get me for was
a Jackson five produced song called What's Your Game? By
m d LT. What's Your Game? It was like they
were m d LT was like, am I think the
legends that they were on Ivory? Yeah, Ivory Tower, like

(01:14:16):
four girls. Yeah, that was my father's group. Okay, so
they just saw like the dining Ross thing. They just
use the and of course the suckle like me comes along.
It's like, yeah, I'll pay thousand for that. Okay, I
get it now. So that was just on his label.
But you guys didn't specifically produce that single or anything. Correct.

(01:14:37):
I don't remember producing we're doing anything? Yes you did,
Yes we did. You don't remember. Okay, at least don't
feel ripped off for pain for that we did. Okay.
So Jackie, I mentioned I mentioned this and in your

(01:14:59):
and your brothers uh documentary for Off the Wall, that
um one of my favorite moments. And discovering that that
demo I wan't shake your body down to the ground.
Was you yelling, I can't wait for the bgs to
hear this ship? Yeah, it's my favorite thing ever and

(01:15:28):
it stops the b to hear this ship. My mom, mom,
me was at your house. And then that's a song
we were doing, like I have a song. We was
messing around this this messing around with a groove that
we was making up something, remember that, And I said
something like I can went the bes here he's right.
I said that, and they called that stuff and that

(01:15:49):
stuff with viral, didn't it? A lot of people did viral? Yeah,
Like what what were your I don't remember that. I
mean at that at that point, I know that you
had to, you know, something improve and this is like
the moment that you guys are gonna step to the
plate and produce your own material. But where you guys, Seriously,
I'm like, Okay, they sold twelve million units. That's us,

(01:16:11):
Like that's what we want. Like what in your mind
was were they the standards of who to beat? Like
why not earthmening fire or p funk or I don't know,
maybe you say that about the b G. It just
came out b here this ship. It just happened. I
just named the b G. That could have been Okay,
that could have been it just you know, it just happened.

(01:16:34):
We was insane, something like a little group just making
something as we go along. And I said, went to
b G tre this ship or something like that. I
remember something like that. Okay, ironically we all get inducted
into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame together, oh together?

(01:16:54):
That came out. Um. I also I also asked your
brother Randy this question. So in terms of presentation and theatrics, like,
you guys definitely raised the game higher. I mean, by
that point in seventy seven, you know, earth wind Fire
is bringing theatrics to the game, and and p Funk

(01:17:14):
definitely was bringing theatrics to the games. But man, it
was tough then. Always I always wanted to know, though,
why was Randy the designated agectator? Like usually any explosions
were because of Randy either throwing you guys in a
pit or throwing some flash paper and exploit, Like why

(01:17:36):
was he the one like like you guys are brothers
in the first twenty three minutes and then Randy does this,
terrorists act like okay then and it's going to explode
and we'll have on new outfits like well, because you're right,
I've never looked at it like that. But you're right, though,
why was he the designated bad guy that had to

(01:17:59):
do because he wasn't because he wasn't in the Jackson Fire.
That's why I'm just kidding. How did you guys conceptualize
those shows? Though? I told me just to cry when
we used to go on the road and drive down
to drive our driveway going out the gate heading for
the airport. He would cry like a baby still in

(01:18:21):
the driver because he thought he was coming with us.
You know, so we thought, man, he pushed, but he
pushed the button for the gate for the car to leave.
Did y'all him when he came, when he finally what
became a part? Did you like? He was always there?
But he he was around. He was hanging around before

(01:18:42):
he became, you know, full member, when he became a
full Remember I remember doing this concert one time. Is
so funny, packed to the raptors all the way around,
remember of people so ran. He's on the stage, he's
getting his shot to be on the stage us and
he was playing his asshole because he can play some cools,
bungles and all that stuff. You know. That's all of

(01:19:04):
a sudden, it's time for Randy to do a solo, right.
I was like, he gets the spotlight, get on it
for him to play and do a solo right right,
And it's a music break and Randy frolls up. Randy
looked up, and so all these people started looking around

(01:19:25):
around like this surround seeing all the things. He forgot
his solo. He did pleasant he really played keep looking
around all these people in Yeah, he didn't play man.
Then he came on later, Yeah, he came in later.
Now I'm gonna tell you a story. On the thirty anniversary,

(01:19:49):
he's doing, you know, shak your body. When we went
to one corner of the stage, we want to the
other corner to the stage, so we ran to the
and y'all didn't even know this was happening on stage.
We ran to the corner stage and we do our
break and we freeze and were just waiting there, waiting there, waiting,
and Michael goes, what's next, what's next? I said, Michael,

(01:20:10):
you're supposed to count it off? What this is going on?
This is going on stage, and you know I didn't
even know it. Oh he didn't know. The next cute, No,
the next cute was him. He's to start the band again.
And he's telling us what's next, what's next? What's next?

(01:20:35):
That's good editing for television, What's like, what's next? I
remember that? Yeah, so for for those for those shows, though,
how much preparation goes into that, and like who decides
what musicians come aboard? Who decides like Duck Henning is
Now I'm assuming that's duck Henning. That helped Dug the

(01:20:57):
first The only thing duck Henning did it was the
was the magic. That's all he did, even introducing magic
to a show like who who? Like what what's the
pre meeting? The pre meeting? Uh situation like before that,
even before Jackie, you you might not know. Before you
all came, Michael and I went and we met with

(01:21:20):
Doug Henning to look at all whatever magic he had
and we picked the one. We picked the one that
flows in there that that would work for the show.
And then you all came. The second time we used Mackie,
it wasn't Doug Kenny Jackie who was? I forgot? Who
does he's on? Come one? David Copperfield. He's right, Oh,

(01:21:50):
he's right, he's the one. But what was the decision
to add those elements to the show? That just came
out of nowhere? Because you know, at that particular time,
a lot of acts were doing something similar to that.
You know, they have something special like uh so illusion

(01:22:11):
or something like that. Yeah, and we decided we add
this to the show. It's gonna gona be something incredible,
you know, you know when I show because we we
we We've always had a high energy type of show,
you know, people dancing and a lot of a lot
of energy and pretty much a nice sized production. So

(01:22:32):
we decided we add this to the show. It would
just go over the top. You know. That's how and
that's how we were thinking. I was gonna say, I'll
let my I'll let the listeners know that. Um, especially
watching all this as like a nine ten year older. UM,
no one has utilized slow motion effects better than the Jackson's,

(01:22:54):
like practically every variety show they were ever one, there's
a moment. I mean I thought you guys could fly,
because there's always some point in that performance where you
guys either running or airlifting like seven ft up in
the air. And I was like, Yo, the Jacksons could
really fly like that. I didn't realize so later that
you know, that's called post editing. But yeah, I just

(01:23:15):
start you guys at magic flying ability. I want to know,
how do you guys, uh you know we were talking
about we're talking about you know, the CBS years. How
when you guys left Motown and you know, how did
y'all kind of repair that relationship with Berry Gordon later on?
Like how did he you know, take y'all leaving, and
you know, where's the y'allways relationship at with him? Now? Always?

(01:23:43):
You know, business is business, just a business decision, and
we were young. It was a decision that my my
father actually you know, you know made and uh and
so we moved forward on it. But I think one
of the uh I remember someone telling me, Jackie, you
might have that Barry good. He said, the worst thing

(01:24:04):
he ever did is let the Jackson five get away
from Motown. Yeah. Yeah, And there was no like space
or room for any discussion of Okay, how many songs
do you want to produce? Or I think I'll call
your bluff and see if you guys would like did
you really think you guys wouldn't leave or anything. I

(01:24:25):
don't know the details, but I think basically he felt
that it wasn't broke. Why I try to fix something
that's working, you know. So basically I don't think he
had that. We had never wrote or produced anything publicly,
So I think he just felt why I changed things. Yeah,

(01:24:54):
I have questions about the Triumph album because that's where, individually,
you guys really into your own as far as songwriting
and producing is concerned. The side. No, Jackie, you you've
actually read my favorite Jackson song of all time, like
Your Ways is like my all time favorite song in life.

(01:25:14):
Oh oh god, yeah, no, no, no doubt. I mean
no offense to you other Jackson's, but you know that's
you know where you going for your Ways? That's the
way I go up for give it up. I love
I know Marlon, Like that's you you singing leave with
Michael and that one man. I love. I love that
song man, And I thought y'all really was y'all was

(01:25:35):
that intense? You'all trying to go for kind of the
yacht rock kind of I guess that you know, that
kind of sound. That's what the song called for, So
that's what you get it. There's the magic that happens
in the studio when you're working. All of a sudden,
somebody hit you with someone the song needs this, bam,
so you do it. You know, it's it's uh, you know,

(01:25:58):
it's just work. It's just you know, you can't go
in and say I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that,
I'm do that. It doesn't work that way. You know.
It's it's a field, it's a you know, That's why
I try to tell some of the kids today. And
with all these electronics that they use, not tell people
how are they supposed to get the sound the way
that instrument really sound if you never heard that instrument, right,

(01:26:21):
and and and and these these they these three albums
that were just released a couple of days ago. M hm.
They have great songs on the songs that never get
that attention, you know what I'm saying, But you're always
Now they're sticking those out and they did some remixing.
They sound great, really, I mean it's amazing. Blues Away
useful one of my favorite. Yeah, that sounds great. And

(01:26:44):
that's what you get for being polite and things. Yeah,
that's on there too, you know all that stuff. It
sounds great. Different mixes on it. How do you guys
write the songs together? But we started we started writing,
we started writing the Destiny album when Michael was doing
in the wy Uh. You know That's what I wanted
to know. How is it like? How what was the

(01:27:04):
process of doing Destiny while he was doing the Whiz?
Did it come out before or after? Well, Destiny was
after the Whids, correct, yes, right, we were getting the
studio and just started writing songs. We you know, meet
up at noon and and we're gonna spend you know,
four or five out five hours in the studio and
we're gonna come up with some stuff and write some songs.
And sometimes we do. Tito had this big camper, you

(01:27:29):
know with the three stoods on it. We would take
it out to the beach and h and sit by
the ocean and write lyrics. And we do things like
that and go out in different plant areas and going
to camper and just write lyrics and come back, you know,
spend about five or six hours out you know, the
Pacific Ocean at the beach and park the campers sideways

(01:27:51):
and just look at the ways, and we have food
in their sandwiches, and we write lyrics and and and
and write songs. Yeah, and they go, I can studio record, yeah,
because we all had our old recording skills to it. Okay,
got you man, I must know for all the people
in my generation. So this song came out, I guess
I was four. The video for can You Feel It? Dude,

(01:28:15):
that was the scariest most Also on top of that,
on top of that, see you were four, can you
Feel It? But try explain into a seven year old
this reflection ship for blame it on the Boogie, which
absolutely scared the ship out of me as a kid.
Consult train would come on there one in the morning,

(01:28:37):
So watching you guys with this reflective ship and like
here my dad's musicians say, like, oh, that's what the
anacid trip is like a mirror. Like again, I knew
you guys are one step ahead of technology with everything
that y'all done, but what was I mean? Yeah, blame
it on the Bookie and can you feel it? Like

(01:29:01):
the big niggas just freak like going away from it.
I think by that point you guys are in your
mid twenties, almost thirty, so it's different. But when you're
you're watching, when you're watching under the age of ten,

(01:29:22):
it's a whole another. It's a different. Blame it on
the Bookie. Used to actually scare me, like just to
watch because I couldn't understand this whole reflection thing and
free that scared me came with thrilling we were after
scaring us for two years with that ship. Big guys,

(01:29:47):
Marble's changing, Michael, and don't stop to get enough like
we were used to it at the time. But yeah,
even when't mak it Okay? So in doing the blame
it on the boogie video, was that just like fifteen
minutes out of your life? Like what are we? We
go over there and we dance. Okay, that's it, Like
look and those are just effects we put on their afterwards.
You know, you know how long did that whole process

(01:30:08):
take in like just to record? You just did like
a couple of takes of it and then that was it. Yeah. Yeah,
all the all the work is really done in the
editing room on a lot of those videos, getting put
watch it and is done on the green A lot
of stuff is done on a green screen or a
chroma key whatever you wanted to call back. Yes, and uh,

(01:30:30):
I mean today they have it a lot easier. You
can do stuff on your computer and everything is at
your fingertips. But it wasn't that way back in the day.
Not at all. Who who chose the musician personnel for
those records? Because you guys had like the monsters, you
had like Nathan Wants and Great Philing Gaines. Yeah explaining

(01:30:50):
with Great Philing Gaines. But those guys basically hung out
with it. They were like friends of our we hung out. Yeah,
we hung out a lot together, all of us. And
then the sound Williams Ray Parker on the show We
all hang out, We all hung out together. Yeah, Ray

(01:31:10):
Parker played on a lot of Jackson's material. You know
David Williams, Yeah, he's David is I feel like an
extention of I mean, he's Billy Preston as far as
I'm concerned. To you, guys, beatles like his guitar sound
is like it is people even our band members. Man,
David got some bad good time leagues. You know, how

(01:31:32):
how did he get this? I said? We we told
David what we wanted him to play. So so we
we come up with a good timeque in our head,
and we tell him how to play it and how
we wanted to sound, and and then we go back
and what made that? David's the good time plenty already

(01:31:54):
had bite, but to make but to make it even
stronger than what it was we were done is incredible.
He would he was a man locking it down, locking it.
He wouldn't lock it like do do do do do
do do do do do do do do do do
do do do do do do But he just didn't
play like he would bite it when he played like this. Yay,

(01:32:15):
he's like he's pulling the strings. One sounds like that. Okay, David,
we gotta do another take. Okay, wait a minute, let
me get the pizza, my chicken and what he has
some fried chicken on the side. Yeah, he liked to
get the gross. Wait minute, I know what I want

(01:32:38):
to ask. Okay, I cheated. I I have to sim
so I've I've heard it. I gotta know. Okay, I'm
assuming that because of how time has to be edited
so that an entire album side can fit. Jackie on
wondering who it Why was Michael's bridge taken out? Was

(01:33:04):
it just to cut? Was it just to cut or edit?
So that so that master, let me explain what you tell.
So the listener is gonna stand back. If you had
too much a low end and you try to master it,
it all spread and eat up more of the record.
But you have to master and get the right sounds

(01:33:25):
and get everything. It's not that way today, but you know,
and we go to Bernie Grub and mastering. He did.
He did all the mastering, and a lot of times
would be in the studio. I mean, how many minutes
is it, you know, because we only can put so
many minutes on the record on the side, yeah, yeah,
And and if you got to so if you got

(01:33:47):
a record like Shake your Body with a lot of
low end, then your minutes get less because it's gonna
eat up more space. And so we will always keep
track of the time on how much time that we
had to put on there and get in there, and
sometimes we had to make get its right so so
it'll fit. So my question is though, I mean, you know,

(01:34:10):
walk right Now is a guard Gage win Time song
seven minutes, Like why not edit from walk right Now?
Instead of taking like Michael's part out of wondering who
I mean, no one misses it because no one's ever
heard it. But I thought that was a very curious
edit and always wondered, like why did you take his

(01:34:31):
part out? Well, you could have saved twenty three minute,
You could have shaved twenty three seconds from walk right Now.
But instead that answer, we don't. It just happened. We
weren't feeling it. It was just happening. But on walk

(01:34:53):
right Now, we want to capture right now like man
walked right ay? But we uh, we had the percussionists
of Paulino DaCosta. You said, Uh, it used to come
in the studio and he had all his toys around

(01:35:14):
him and all that stuff, and so we're trying to
get some side. But yes, and he would be laughing playing,
but he can plays rump off and uh. And we
wanted to make sure that we kept all the stuff
he did, keep all this stuff and on walk right now,
what we one of the things we did is we
took the tape, we splice it, and we took the

(01:35:36):
tape and we played it backwards. Yeah, you know, so
we because you know, computers today, you can do whatever
you want to do, but back in those days, but
when you do that, you gotta make sure that it's insane.
You gotta be on the downbeat. And it takes it
took a while for us to get that down just
the way we wanted so we could come right on

(01:35:58):
the down bound it and something that just happened like that,
and we're breathing over the over the engineer to make
sure he's splices at the right time, right spot, because
you don't get a chance, second chance right exactly, you know,
And he's nervous and get the razor blade and you know.
Then Spice put it all back together and and we

(01:36:19):
listened to it. It Okay, we got to come back
reversing put you know, so it took. It took some time.
You know, No, I totally look Steve. I'm surprised Steve
is not waiting. And probably of of any album that
I've studied, the mixing and mastering of, probably the Trying record.

(01:36:42):
I asked, uh, Well, the last couple of years of
my life, I've been you know, yeah, for my forties.
I asked, um, back when Nelly Read was president of EPIC,
if I could, if you could send me all the
all the uh the stems so I could study it.
And yeah, walk right Now had a lot of tracks

(01:37:04):
on it, even that part with uh the costas uh solo,
with all those percussion things like just the painstaking and
you guys did it without pro tools. So yeah, yeah,
I know you guys had to make that ship up. Marlon.
By this point, also you were doing producing yourself, working

(01:37:28):
on a Betty Wright's record. In addition, h your sister
Janet working on her Like, what can you talk about
your first four rays into outside producing? Well, don't stand
another chance? Is uh is a song that John Barnes
and I wrote, and m can you also explain the
Sherlan connection with that, because there's no Shirley connection. Well,

(01:37:55):
the I have a track of a Sirlin song singing
the same rhythm track, but just new lyrics of it.
I never understood the difference between I've never heard that. Yeah,
it's called Love's Churs Love Christ stuff. You don't even
have Chris Love. That's did you have been up on

(01:38:19):
Moms and everything? I actually asked, uh, I was confused
about it, and Jimmy jim had told me there's Yeah,
there's a song that came out on on Our Instant
not the Instant Love album, but it's called Love Love
Rush Love Rush. It's it's on the Preppy album. So

(01:38:40):
I wanted to know, if you like, what was what
was the working relationship with John Barnes as far as
putting that song together. We just came in and John
John was playing this song and you wanted me to
do the lyrics and and so I said, yeah, let's
get it done. Let's do it. So we worked on

(01:39:01):
worked on it together, John and John John Barnes and
I used to hang out all the time, used to
come over to the house all the time. We just
started writing stuff and doing stuff and working with Betty Wright. Also,
Betty is a Betty is a great person. She's a
resting peace. She just passed away to class away, right,
but she she was. She's a great woman. She's a

(01:39:24):
great singer too, and on on that album. Luther did
a lot of background stuff on that album before people
knew who Luther Vandross was, you know. And I had
a great time in the student working with Betty and
and you know, she's funny, she's um Ke's the vocal
coach as well, uh, you know, and and bedding to
every damn body. So when you needed something, she's a

(01:39:47):
don't worry, I got it. You know, we're calling people
to do stuff for us, and and uh I called
it John Barnes to come in because we had this
band that was doing these tracks with us, and and
the tracks kept swimming and the drama just couldn't keep time.
And so the lemb machine, the drum lit machine had

(01:40:11):
just come out, right, So I told Youhn to stop
at my house and grab my drum limb machine, because
you know, I knew how to program that that machine
to make drums sound like to make to make them
sound like restaurant like like real like like real real drums,

(01:40:32):
And that's the whole key um Actually, Jackie for you
as well, I know that your solo album came out
in seventy three. Are you Are you even aware that
Is It Him or Me? Is kind of held up
in high regarden in in sort of hip hop circles.
That's kind of well because it has a drum a

(01:40:53):
famous drum break on it that you know, an obscure
album can suddenly become like uh no, no, no, no,
I wasn't aware in active Okay, yeah, I was gonna say, like,
is it Him or Me? But I wanted to know
about that song? Is that to you? Just like? It's
funny you say that because I noticed my boys. I

(01:41:16):
got twin boys here, they're very young and and uh
over the last two weeks they've been playing that a
lot in the house. And I was here that you know,
I was upstairs. I was here, who's that saying? And
it was me? And you know, and my boys are
like they're seven years old, you know, twin boys. And
they played all of our all of our music, but

(01:41:36):
all of a sudden they was playing my solo album.
I haven't heard that stuffing about twenty years my solo
stuff maybe longer than that, And it was playing and
I was really I was really grouping off of it,
you know, thanks to them, but just bringing you know,
to my attention, and it sounds great, you know. Yeah,
a lot a lot of times when I had tour

(01:41:56):
people aspect aspect, how come you don't do the songs?
You know when when I do the meeting read guys,
I could be not doing these songs, you know. For again,
for hip hop producers, like that album is is one
of the you know, yeah, it is one of those things.
It's one of the yeah that just caught on. So
for hip hop collectors like is it Him or Me?

(01:42:19):
Is like one of our one of our our favorite songs.
But actually for the both of you, with you Marlon
and with you Jackie working on Baby Tonight and your
album was be the one, what was what was that
process like like finally working on your solo albums in

(01:42:39):
that time period like after the after the Victory album
and and those things, like, what was what was that
process like for you working on those records? For me,
it was it was what I had a studio in
the back of my house, so I would get up
in pajamas and just going to studio. Has spent on
a practical almost all night there and and just come

(01:43:01):
up with a bunch of stuff or you know, in
the studio and there's a lot of stuff that I
have that was never released or you know, hasn't been out,
and some good stuff too. I think I was playing
some of some of it the other day, and you know,
you've been doing it all your life, so it's almost

(01:43:23):
like second nature. Is not something you know that you whoa.
It's like, Okay, I got to get another project done.
You gotta do this. I mean, we grew up in
the studio. We from from young kids too two now,
so when you get in the studio, you you pretty
much know the ends and out. You know you how
to work the boards, how the engineer this stuff. You

(01:43:45):
know what you're looking for. So it was it wasn't
it wasn't that difficult. But it's fun, especially when you
started working on some stuff for you for yourself. You know,
you're trying to make it fun, but you want to
make yours. You know, you try to capture what you're
looking for but it was it wasn't that difficult. I
mean you pretty much use the same guys that you

(01:44:07):
always used on the Destiny. You calling Greg feeling Gage
to play some stuff, David Williams to play some licks
for you, and some all some stuff that you wanted
to do. You know, you get with Jerry Hale or
somebody and give them the horn leaks you want to
go right out the chart to do. Let me call
on it on this. And one thing about these these
artists that we had, these these you know, like I

(01:44:30):
said before, these artists, they they hung around us as friends,
so they know everything about us. They know exactly what
we were looking for. They were friends of all. We
hung out together, we we went to dinner together, We
did a lot of things. A matter of fact, they
were our age. I mean they grew up with us.
So everything came to nature. It was easy, you know,

(01:44:50):
pretty easy. I was gonna say, Marlon Um, one of
one of the bands that like is is gritty Polity
and I know that, Um Fred Fred Mayor the album
with you, what was it? What was it like? Working
with Fred? Fred was cool because it was my first time.
Fred's one turned me onto the ad one. I don't

(01:45:10):
know if you're familiar with they had one drums drummer kit,
is it? Yeah, it's the same kid that Phil Collins
used on. I can feel it in the air tonight,
So yeah, is that is that sound? And and fred
Fred Terming on that a matter of fact, I bought
one and we came up and we wrote a lot

(01:45:33):
of stuff together. Yes, I like screwy polity to day
you'll be doing your stuff. Huh. Like he had a sound, people, people,
I got a whole scriticals. I got to write that

(01:45:53):
one down to We talked about them on another episode
I can't remember. It was kind of deepen on them. Yeah.
I was gonna say, no, we're not just thriller band
wagoners like we're you know we we we know the
whole spectrum of the entire work of you know, all
all nine of you. Actually, wait a minute, Fante, we're

(01:46:14):
talking about scary videos. The one we never mentioned it
was freaking torture. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah I didn't. I
didn't watch that one. Yeah I didn't. I didn't watch
that one. Jackie that I'm the hint. Why is a

(01:46:37):
great song? Know it was, it was a great song,
but now I just think about the hand and like
the slide story. Were on the Victory Tour right the
very beginning of the Victory Tour, and at the time
I was dating paul Abdol. At the time, I was
the one who roped whoever that is. I was the

(01:47:01):
one who got her in the industry. I mean when
she was a Laker girl. I remember sitting on the
floor at video. Me and Marlon had the lacal seats
on the floors when Magic Johnson was doing their thing
at the time, and I'm sitting on the floor and
and every day I'm on the floor, walks around every

(01:47:22):
day before the game started. This they would come over
and say hello, over he we come from he he
comes in Lake and I think he I think he
just came off his first big movie, his first movie,
and he would walk around the place and people really
didn't know who he was, and he would come over
and say hello to me. But he's this there today.
But anyway, I'm sitting on the floor and all of

(01:47:43):
a sudden, Paula comes over and another girl comes over
and they want an autograph, you know, all of a sudden,
I signed an autograph and she goes back and sit
behind the basket where you know where the Laker girls
sitting and sit behind the basket. And all of a sudden,
Sam why to come over and said, Jackie, Paula wants
to Uh, no that you want to have coffee. Have

(01:48:06):
to be a game. And I said, sure, we'll tell me. Yeah,
I meet her after the game. And so we went
to have some coffee and we became very good friends,
you know, and we dated for like four years. You know,
the saying I know she's doing Janet videos and put
it with Janet, me and John McClean put her the Janet.
She's doing all the Janet stuff. And and next thing,

(01:48:28):
we're going to Victory Tour and we have we in
New York City. So we had a cattle call of people,
maybe three hundred people to be in this video. And
she helped me arrange the video for torture video. And
all of a sudden, I said, paul I want you
to to charographs video. She said no. I said, Paula,

(01:48:48):
I believe in you. You can do it. Don't be
afraid you can do this, and uh and she did.
And she that's her first video she quographed. She put
it together. Yeah, slim in everything. Yeah, okay, oh okay,

(01:49:08):
and subsequent well assume that she also did the body
video as well, because that was what was kind of
a video of a catty. She didn't do that. No,
Michael Peters did that. Oh Michael Peters, the legendary Michael Peters. Yeah,

(01:49:31):
Michael Peters are bad. I don't care what peace man
and I asked for a question, and you guys were
talking about bands. I just wanted to ask about your
touring bands because you imagine that, like whatever the audition
process is must be a must be crazy to audition
for the Jackson's. But I know I was lucky enough,
like I don't know, seven years ago to be a

(01:49:51):
production assistant on the Jackson's tour and you guys have Yeah,
But when I went to London with y'all, I went
to the the Isle of Wight and I went to
a didn't know this. Yeah, yeah, I was helping out
with Bill Brown and Nick and everybody. Yeah, helping you

(01:50:12):
in the dressing rooms and listen, I was on gonna
hustle when you can fire from radio, you gotta do.
You know, I didn't know this because I took a
whole steplex with the Jackson's. You know, some time I
worked for the Jackson's and it was just amazing to
see that, like the band of y'all, form was not

(01:50:34):
only just some of them were young, like your music
director Brandon at the time, he was like thirty early
third maybe thirty, right, but just a dynamic, amazing supendence band.
Then you combined it with some o gs. But can
you just talk about the process now for to put
together a jackson fan who's playing bass by the way,
in your current van Brandon is young Brandon that won

(01:50:57):
an Oscar when he was for three six Mafia. Oh yeah,
he's killing And your drummer and your your drummer and
your percussionists, Oh my god. Yeah, But what is the
process now? What was the process? Now? How did you
how do you decide who's good enough to well, you know,

(01:51:18):
you know, you know what, when those guys come in,
they come in knowing the music, they come in playing
it because they grew up on it. We had years
to learn it. Yeah, they come in on the stuff.
You know when they started playing, said, oh my god,
these young cats, how do you know this stuff like this?
You know, and they grew up playing it. You know, yeah,

(01:51:40):
you just polished him up a little bit, but they
pretty much do it. And another question says, you guys
are gonna still towards right after COVID because y'all have
been touring. Okay, so can you tell people your routines?
Your dance routine seemed the exact same. I mean from
the freeze that you talked about, like everything y'all do
your bodies moved the exact same? Is it the exact same?

(01:52:01):
And how do y'all maintain that? You know? Gave me
some quick like this is just what we do. Answer?
But I know, and Jack, you know, you know, once
we uh, you know, we can they all stags for
the longest time and once we get together somehow it
just comes together. It comes that way because we've been
doing it for so long. We just know each other's moves.

(01:52:23):
We know a matter of fact, we know where Michael
would be on the stage. You know, in any given time,
you know exactly where he would be on that stage.
Even today, if we're go on the stage, you know,
and that's how it worked. We just it just works
that way. How do you make sure your bodies are
still able to keep up with these moves on the
daily sometimes you know, you know when you're on stage,

(01:52:48):
if you try to if you think of a move,
we try to do it. It doesn't work that where
you just gotta feel it and you do it and
don't think about it. That's that's a bottom line. You know,
take vitamins and things or yeah, yeah we did. We
stay in shape and plus, you know, like our shows
like a high energy show and it's like working out.
To me, he could work out because I can break workout.

(01:53:09):
Was inspired a lot, but only plus you get a
check at the end of the day. But you know,
it's talk about it. It's like it's like going to
the gym. You know, it's like it's a great workout
for we love it. But the main key, the main kids,
make sure you get your rests. We do not go
out and party at clubs. After this, never did say

(01:53:31):
we never did. We go to bed and get our
rest so we can be ready to go the next day. Yeah.
I was scious to know too, like y'all's um, you know,
because y'all were raised Joe was witnessed, and I was
scurious to know how your parents at that time, you know,
when you were kids and just throughout your career, how
much did your faith play in you know, I guess
developing that disciplines you guys talk about. And how did

(01:53:52):
your parents, UM say, okay, y'all, can you got your career,
but you also have to I guess worship in whatever way.
How did y'all st Well, my mom was different long
as you had some type of spiritual belief or whatever.
But they understood that, Um dollar bill has got you
out of Gary. Let's talk about it. But we say,

(01:54:15):
but what I loved about my mom is that she
didn't try to force the religion on you. Uh, you know,
Jeovah wins because when I got married, you know, I
I became a Catholic on the Catholic Church all the
time and things. My wife, as long as you had
some type of belief and in God in your life

(01:54:35):
and tried to do the right thing, she was comfortable
with that. Now my sister, my sister, really she's different.
She's still She thought of washed Towers that you and
Michael and Michael was baptized to Michael got baptized. He
was baptized at one time, and he told me the

(01:54:57):
story that he was really serious. He is a Saturday.
You know how Joe Winden's knocked on the door and
talked to West Tower. So Michael knocked on this girl's door.
She opened the door and realized it was him, and
she started peeing. He said, she started seeing right, but
she stops, you know what to do? He told me,

(01:55:20):
he's he's trying to teach her about Jehovah to God,
Jehope of God. She realized with said, but she just stopped.
This is this is a true story. Yeah, a true story.
That is our clip for this episode. I can't wait

(01:55:41):
to see. Yeah, he's really serious. And Bill Brave was
waiting for Hi because Bill brab you know, he could
go with him at times, you know, standing standing over
the corner and wait for him, you know, and and uh,
he was problems people. It was kind of hard for
him to do that at the time when he did it,

(01:56:02):
you know. And so so some of the things he
really wanted to do, he had to get out of
the faith, you know, he had to get out of
Joe Witness to really do this thing where he really
wanted to go. You know what I'm saying, Yeah, I'm
never going to get that visual out my hand. Thank you, Jackie.
I appreciate that. I can ask questions forever if you

(01:56:22):
guys have done your questions. I got one family question.
I want to know throughout your lives and actually now
post Rhona, how you guys maintained speaking to each other.
How you guys main stay Because it's eight it's eight
of y'all. Right, we do this sometimes like we're doing
right now. And sometimes Tito will come to my house.

(01:56:44):
I'll bea Tito at the park. You know, we meet,
you know, his wife and my wife. We meet with
the kids and at a park. You know, we do
that sometimes. And because it's it's really serious out there,
you know, with this coronavirus, and you gotta be real,
real careful, especially in California this way. Man, it's it's
it's it's tough. You gotta, I mean, you have to

(01:57:05):
mass up, keep you keep your hands clean. And that's
what we do so far. So far. I'm good. How
is reb what man? Maybe Web is doing well. She
lives with my mom. She stayed with my mom. She
watches my mom Momma rebe together and they're when they're
decorating the house right now, doing it all over again
and that's what my mom is doing. She's so alert.

(01:57:26):
You're talking to my mom. You think she's around forty
years old? Your mom? How old is she now, Jackie?
She'ld be ninety one May four. That's amazing, she's ninety now,
she'd be nine. Yeah, yeah, right that. I'm happy when
she wake up every morning, you know, happy to see

(01:57:48):
him my my. My last question was I know that. Um,
you guys often talk about like you guys try to
get together as a family and all that, but with
the kids until how how hard is it to organize
Jackson family reunions? Does that still happen? Not right now.

(01:58:09):
It's very difficult to do that right now. Now. It's
very before. We do it all the time. Like Jackson
Street the video that was like real life to be
the person that cooks that food. Okay, no, you know
what I met your I met the I met your

(01:58:29):
dessert maker, the woman that makes all the cakes and
I forget her name. He's talking about. He's talking about
she makes this German chocolate cake that's out. You know
she's talking about come on, you know Cordia. Cordia, Yeah, Cordion,
she not on. She does for will Smith too. Know

(01:58:51):
she does everybody like, uh, she came to a Janet
show and she snuck I think at the time, Jance like,
I'm not suppered to have this, and she snuck her
like a cake, like real covert style, like back alley
deal sort of thing. And then she introduced itself to
me and I was like, oh, you've been making cakes
with the Jackson's how long? And then she made one.

(01:59:13):
Now she's official. Man, She's like, she's great, amazing, amazing,
k Yeah, the question can I say something? Yeah, man,
I'd like to thank you. Man, you've been so supportive
in my family. We would go to we would go
to uh, five star hotels. Right. We walk in the

(01:59:33):
hotels and on the coffee table be this big coffee book,
right and I opened it up. It's you in there.
You in the book. Really a lot of hotels. You
were inside the book, you said, there with all jackson
familiar all all over the place where the Jackson's albums.
And I would see this and that's how I learned

(01:59:56):
that you were. You know, I think, yeah, I I
said the thank this guy. You know, he's the biggest
the biggest picture I saw was in Heartbreak ho to
I'm just kidding. And I see for real in London
everywhere we go, we see you in these books man.

(02:00:18):
Man on the coffee table in the London hotels. Yeah,
I must get around and everywhere you know you guys,
you guys, are you know our first superheroes? Yeah? Man,
like literally, God, music has been a part of my life.
I'm I'm for to us you've been. Your music has

(02:00:39):
been a part of my life, like my whole life.
Like I don't ever remember point in my life not
knowing a Jackson song or hearing the music in my
house or my mother playing it or whatever. And um no, man,
I just give your brother's flowers love y'all like that,
Thank you, thank yous right now giving And I remind

(02:01:06):
people again when we go outside, go see the Jackson's
live it's just like it was. It's all it's all
the same, just the same as gentlemen. Thank you very
much for this podcast. I really appreciate it. Can I
ask one final question come out now? Just you don't

(02:01:31):
often get a chance to ask Motown legends who their
favorite Motown legends are, So I'm just wondering who, like
as on a personal level, who your favorite motown artists
or band was if you could just pick one, well
from besides yeah, Tito. For me, it's like the Temptations. Uh.

(02:01:52):
They they're the ones who really we watched a lot
of Temptations and Dinah Ross I hate said, I gotta,
I gotta bring her up. I have to, and the
Pips squad, actually everybody. Steve actually brought up something that

(02:02:17):
we normally asked and I didn't ask ste I'm sorry, Okay,
I'm sorry, of course, cousin Stevie. Yeah, my thing. I
was gonna say, uh, well, normally Steve asked this question.
But when you guys were in that Incino house, what
was the record collection? Like, oh, and where is it now?

(02:02:42):
How big was the record collection? And who decided what
got played? We we all had our own record collection,
I believe. I mean I listened. I mean, I got
a lot of Quincy Jones albums. I had Marvin Gaye's
Distant Lover's album. I had Backstabbers Hell, Marvin in the

(02:03:02):
Blue Notes. Yes, yes, tracks, you know, sign See Delivered
and we you know, kept the stuff on cassettes. Y'all
forgot about cassettes, you know, so we you know, Jackie Jackie.

(02:03:22):
It's a blessing to see these numbers. I know a
lot of jombers don't get to see these numbers. But
you know we listened. We listened to all kind of music.
I mean country, Western music. Uh actually did? We did
all kinds to it all because great music is great music.
I don't care what genres is. You know it's great music.

(02:03:45):
It's just great music. Mm hmm. You know. Okay? And
have you said that? I'm Banda Jackson. You're on the
Quest Love Show. Baby, who needs to sign on the
Show'm gonna be having having everyone? This is now. We'll

(02:04:06):
see you all in the next ground. This question looks
su pretty thick, yo. What's up? This is Sponte. Make
sure you keep up with us on Instagram at q
l S and let us know what you think and
who you should be next to sit down with us.
Don't forget to subscribe to my podcast all right m M.

(02:04:35):
What's Love Supreme is the production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.

Hosts And Creators

Laiya St. Clair

Laiya St. Clair

Questlove

Questlove

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