March 10, 2021 • 49 mins
As we continue celebrating dope women, in this week's episode of Questlove Supreme we speak to legendary music journalist, Lisa Robinson. On the heels of her latest book Nobody Ever Asked Me About the Girls, Lisa speaks with Quest and Team Supreme about her 50 year career and 5000 hours of interviews that include many of the biggest and most talented artists of the times. Class is in session!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio
Ladies and Gentlemen Um. Right now, Lisa Robinson is showing us, Uh,
we're on zoom right now, and she was sober her
illustrious record collection, and I'm celebrating right now. Okay, what's
(00:21):
behind me is a portion, not all of them, of
my five thousand hours of interviews, or all of the
original cassettes, plus manic backups Richard did my husband before
he died, on CD because he didn't believe in the
clown the Internet or the computers, so he made backups
(00:44):
on two or three CDs of every single cassette. Then
I had to hire in an I T guy after
Richard died, and he copied it onto two different computers,
three external hard drives, and three backups of the external
hard drugs and secure undisclosed locations. So what's behind me
(01:06):
all the original interviews with some of them. I have
to say that I've known you about twenty years, and
often I have I haven't stayed up at night, but
I've definitely wondered are you properly going to archive your
your collection, your collection of notes, and you have like
(01:28):
original hotel notes in stationary I haven't original question. Michael
Jackson told that when he was eleven that I kept
in a safety deposit box for years where he is
this the infamous one where he called himself a nigger.
He wrote, The question was what's your nickname? And he
(01:49):
said the nose and then he wrote n I g
one word one g e er, but he crossed that out. Yeah,
that's not about I have a floor I have. Where
did you hear about it other than me? Because I
have nobody else. Okay, So I have letters, yeah, letters
(02:11):
from Bowie and John Lennon and everybody on the planet,
and four storage spaces that I spend fifty thousand dollars
a year in addition to this museum I'm living in,
and an office across the street that also houses a
lot of ship And in terms of really properly appraising
or archiving it, I've been too busy trying to earn
(02:34):
a living for all these years. I just haven't had
the time. So the audio archives are pretty well documented now,
they're on a bunch of databases. The photos I have
trunks and trunks and trunks of original photos from Bob
Grew and Lee Childers, Annie Liebovitz, Peter huge are maple thorpe?
(02:57):
I mean so much stuff that I never hung any
of it up. It's in storage, It's in my house
and boxes and closets. Um, I actually have something, maybe
you would want it. I was in Nashville and I
was in a thrift store and there was one of
those huge posters of a black barber shop, you know,
(03:21):
the drawings with the fabulous kind of old like some
girls kind of wigs. I bought it. I bought it,
and I shipped it back to New York And this
was in two thousand and four maybe, and I said
to friend, what should I do with this? I was
(03:43):
going to either give it to Tony Morrison or that
they an artist and because they collect that kind of stuff.
And she said, well, I wouldn't display it. It's really
not correct for you to display it. So it's hiding
somewhere in a closet. It's awesome though, it is so
great anyway, Okay, I had to properly introduce you, ladies
(04:05):
and gentlemen. This is course left supreme. Um. I knew
the second that her mic was on, the stories would come.
And of course the stories came even before I did
the proper introduction. I will say that our guests, Damn
Near is a pioneer or inventive rock and roll journalism.
There was a time in your life where making a
(04:27):
living writing about the lives of rock stars was a
questionable thing. One couldn't make a living off of it.
So I will say that our guest today is a
pioneer in terms of one that actually made their full
time career kind of journaling the lives of others. Name
(04:49):
them New Music, Express, Cream Magazine, The New York Post,
even um, all the way down at Vanity Fair, if
you will. She's probably the trusted plug some one in
the rooms. He's literally seen everyone and everything, and um.
These types of interviews are my favorite because oftentimes I
(05:10):
say that, um, you'll learn more about a subject um
based on the extra eyes in the room, UM, not
necessarily the subject themselves. So name them from Jagger to Richards,
to Page and Plant to Bowie, Read Lennon, Oh, no, Jackson, Bono,
(05:33):
I forgot what Bono's I forgot what Bono's last name is.
It's it's a bus, that's right. Real name is Paul
Paul Houston. That's right. It's like an uncle of my Um,
you don't. I don't recognize any of those names. Did
you ever meet anybody famous? I will say that I
highly recommend as far as memoirs are concerned. Um both
(05:57):
both of her books. Uh no, never asked me about
the girls and there goes Gravity. Those are probably to
my favorite memoirs. I don't know, like I journalists to
me or like just zequal rock stars as the actual
rock stars themselves. So please welcome to quest Left Supreme
Lisa Robinson. Okay, what are you saying, Steve? No, No,
(06:22):
I made my joke. Now you made famous just for
me out out the gate Lisa. For um our guests
that might not be familiar with your your pedigree in
your history, could you please give me three random historical
(06:44):
I was there moments that that come come to mind.
You know this gives you a chance with Led Zeppelin.
When it to a manager pulled out a gun. I
was on the other end of Peter Peter Grant. It
was Richard called at any rate. I was wait, wait,
you can't just glide by that like second, you just
(07:07):
ask the three random you want me to tell you
the whole story? We'd be on the front that we
hold on a second, let me just say something. I'm
doing a serious radio show by the way, Serious XM,
starting tomorrow night from seven to eight pm, and it's
called Call Me with Lisa Robinson because as you know,
I'm still in an old BlackBerry and I only know
how to text on it, and I like, I like
(07:31):
people to actually call me at any rate. Okay, So
that's one Texas Instruments in business. That's that much. The second,
I am Worldwide West. Who's with the next? Now? My
favorite team are the only people and who still use
a BlackBerry at anyway? Back to the three random incidents,
(07:53):
let me think I can't think of just three out
of thousands. But okay, but let's up room with a gun.
Michael Jackson calling me on the phone and crying that
he did not want a tour with his brothers in
ight on that victory tour was the style. I don't
remember all the dates, okay, so oh man huh. I
(08:15):
don't want to talk about the time that Jagger had
to borrow my underpants because he lost his jock strap,
but I guess that's been well documented. Here's the point.
I just plus say two things you said all the
people that I had interviewed, and or you started to
talk about Bowie, Louis, the stone Zeppelin, Michael Jackson, et cetera.
(08:38):
You mentioned one woman, Yoko Ono. The reason I wrote
nobody ever asked me about the girls is because I
had interviewed Tina Turner, Joni Mitchell, Mary j. Blange, Linda
ronstad Um, I mean, everybody after Janis Joplin. Thank god
it was someone before my time. And the point is
I always had to answer of questions like what's Eminem
(09:02):
really like? What's kind of like? I mean, you know
you probably get the same thing. What was John Lennon
really like? What was David Bowie really like? And I
finally got to the point after having written There Those Gravity,
which was mostly all about guys except for one chapter
on Lady Garba, I thought it's about time I started
dealing with the women. So that was one thing I
(09:23):
just wanted to clarify. And the other thing is when
you said that I was a pioneer at a time
when no one was making a living writing about rock
and rome musicians or a popular culture. We still don't
make a living doing that. So I just like to
clarify that for the record. Um, we were having too
(09:43):
much fun. Nobody was talking about money, Nobody was thinking
about that. In the seventies, I would make like forty
dollars a week from a syndicated column or editing Hit
Parado with my husband, or going on tour with Zeppelin
and the Stones are hanging out and CBGBs every and
I thought this was great. I mean, we were in
a rent control department. I'm still in a rent stabilized department,
(10:08):
saying when we moved into the nineties seventy six, and
it's like a museum. I never decorated it. It's just
full of books and records and interviews and saw memorabilia
that I don't trust to leave in Manhattan mini storage. Um.
But it just was different time. It was like, also,
(10:29):
I mere, you know, you grew up in this business.
I mean, I even think I saw as a kid
Lee Andrews and the Hearts. I don't know, maybe at
the Brooklyn Fox or one of those places I snuck
out of my house as a teenager to go see
Colonious Monk of the Five Spot or on Coltrane or
Aneto Day and stand Gets at the Village Vanguard. But
(10:53):
also to go to those early rock and roll shows
at the Brooklyn Fox Theater. I don't remember going to
the Apollo, but I do remember going to the Apollo
much later when I was teaching school in Harlem in
the sixties. But I grew up with all this music.
I used to listen to it under the covers with
(11:15):
the transistor radio, you know, that old cliche, and it
just made me feel like there was a great, sexy,
interesting world out there. And I was a fan. And
I grew up in a left wing household that played
Lead Belly and Lady Got Three, and I knew about
Mama and may Thornton and sister Rozette Thorpe, and you
(11:35):
know a lot of stuff that no other journalists when
I was starting out knew about um except from my husband,
who was on w n e WFM when it was
nineteen sixty nine free form music. And I heard his
voice in the middle of the night. He was on
the graveyard shift, and I thought he he had a
(11:58):
very sexy voice, and be he played unbelievable music and
he got fired five times. The first time was they're
playing music what they called unfamiliar music, which was like
can Tina Turner, Tina Turner in Vanetta Fields doing a
battle on something got a hold on me. I'll never
forget it. Pprnold doing first cut as the Deepest Um,
(12:22):
Curtis Mayfield and the Impressions because he also worked at Buddha,
so we're working so yeah. So Richard got fired for
playing unfamiliar music, which was black music. Then they hired
him back again because he was like the house tippy.
And he got fired for playing Jimmy Hendrickson's star spangled
(12:42):
banner because they told him it was on patriarchic. Then
they hired him again, and I think he played the
stooges in the velvets, but like really, you know, some
of the sicker stuff like I want to be your dog,
or Heroin or white light, white heat, or just kind
of noise stuff. They fired him again, and I think
the last time they hired him he just went on
(13:04):
the air, flush the toilet and walked off. And so
this was my introduction to the music. I went to
work for him during his filing. Five months later we
got married. He turned one of his columns over to
me in England, and that's kind of how it started.
He opened a door and I bulged through. What I'll
(13:31):
say is based on you know, I've collected a lot
of old periodicals and all those things, so I've seen
your work, you know. I will say that the difference
between your brand of documenting a moment was way different
than say, you know, the Beatles would land in America
in the sixties and have a press conference like at
(13:53):
the airport or at the hotel. People have random questions.
It's like audience crowd work whatever. But your brand work,
how did you know that? I mean, it's somewhere between
like page you know, I know that you've done in
depth Q and A interviews as well, but you know,
(14:13):
you doing quick takes like you know, Bowie hung out
at Max's Kansas City and he wore a leopard T shirt.
Like people weren't describing like what people were wearing or
any of those things. Like you you were like the
precursor at like page six. So how do you know.
(14:34):
I don't know about page six, but maybe MTV and
fashion and style. Yeah, the idea of it, right. Well,
first of all, thank god the Beatles were before my time.
Something else before my time. But I never asked a
question at a press conference because I always asked more
interesting questions, and I didn't want anybody else getting the
(14:54):
answers on Kanye. Kanye had a listening party once for
which is the album as a late graduation that John
Bryan produced with WE Major and Gold Digger on it. Anyway,
he had a listening party for that with a whole
bunch of press in the room, and Jay was there,
(15:15):
and I'm friendly with John Brian and I knew he
produced the record, and I had met Kanye several times
through John, and when they played WE Major, I went
ballistic because to this day, I still think it's the
best thing he's ever done. But it was like a
Phil Specter's symphony, and I just went crazy. So I
had to ask a question, and I raised my hand
(15:38):
and Jay went all Lisa as a question, Lisa as
a question, and I said, how many tracks are on
WE Major? And they had no idea, they didn't know,
they didn't know the answer, and so they started calling
me the stumper. For a long time, actually, Jay started
calling me, kept going the Stumper, and I went home
called John Brian who told me that he got it
(15:59):
from some kid and to go artuado loop of it
at any rate, what I did as a journalist from
the jump was I was interested in their lives, their music.
I mean, when I met Jimmy Page, I would talk
to him about Muddy Waters and Hall and Wolf and
Elmore James and Willie Dixon, who they ripped off allegedly,
(16:22):
although I think they had to pay you. Well, I
get very nervous about that. So you know, it's like
a Diesels and Mayor thing, allegedly allegedly allegedly anyway, so
so um. But I also talked to Aubert Plant about
Fairport Convention in Kaleidoscope and Incredible String Band and Jeremy
(16:43):
Mitchell because I grew up the same loving the same
music they did, and I didn't love a lot of
the folks stuff so much. Then I grew to I
did like the Incredible String Band, but I'm Kaleidoscope. But
I would talk to them about their musical taste. I
would write about their clothes. I mean, I'll never forget
(17:05):
when I was in New Orleans with those guys the
first time I ever interviewed them lengthully, Robert was wearing
a red nile on speedo bikini, parading around the pool.
Parading is the only word I could use for it.
And Jimmy Page was wearing a maroon velvet jacket in
(17:25):
eighty three degree weather, and I remember writing that it
was sweltering at eighty three degree weather, so some of
the climate change that was three. Anyway, I just started
talking to about music. I started talking about their clothes.
And this was a time that people don't know. They
(17:47):
were written about as a heavy, cheesy, heavy metal band.
Every male journalist, every one of my so called colleagues
who threatened to quit Cream magazine when I started did
to do a column called Belegnza, which was named after
a black pimp catalog, and it was all about clothes.
(18:07):
And all these guys threatened to leave the magazine because
they said it was decadent. I shouldn't be writing about clothes.
This was the alternative culture. This was the revolution. I mean,
this is in Detroit, by the way, where the White
Panthers and John Sinclair were sitting around a table plotting
revolution while the women were in the kitchen cooking. So
(18:28):
I would just like to make that point about the
MC five um, even though they were a great band. However,
I would always talk to these guys just on a
level of mutual musician fandom and asked them about their lives.
I didn't review their records, I didn't review their concerts.
(18:50):
I didn't do any boring analysis shit about their lyrics.
And I just think they will relieved. I mean again,
this was at a time when John Mendelssohn wrote in
Rolling Stone about the lemon song that was on a
Zeppelin I think the first album, maybe the second, and
he said, Robert Plant sings notes only a dog came here.
(19:11):
And if I remember that from three, you can be
certain that Robert Plant remembers it. And Jimmy would bitch
about the reviews all the time, and I would just say,
I don't give a shit about reviews. You don't understand
your music is majestic. You combine the hard knock and
the folk music and Eastern stuff in all this, and
(19:31):
years from now your music will be remembered. And those
magazines and newspapers were wrapped fish and sure enough, now
Zepper is considered one of the greatest. I mean, eggs
on Main Street was hanned. It was my favorite Rolling
Stones record and when it first came out. So I
(19:52):
think part of the reason that I have the access
to these bands was a I was a woman, but
I was not sleeping with them, and I was not
taking drugs with them. I was newly married. Richard was
much cuter than any of them were anyway, and smarter um.
And when I first met mcjaggard, the first thing I
(20:14):
said to him was those of the tackiest shoes I've
ever seen, because he was wearing some sort of sequin
Papagallo encrusted shoes. It was backstage at an Our Captain concert,
and you know that was refreshing to them. People would
meet mc jaguin, they'd be like intimidated. I was from
New York. I wasn't intimidated. Well, okay, so what I
(20:37):
want to know is, obviously you're from even though you're
of the time, you were clearly thinking future generation. Case
in point, like Prince opening for the Stones in l A.
Even though he himself as a baby boomer, his music
and his presentations for generation next, it's for what's next.
(21:00):
So obviously you know you you were forward thinking. Who
who were the other women in that era that was documenting?
I know that, uh, you know you you spoke of
a time where you and and fran Leave would's came
up together on that the Stones Tour. But like, we're there,
(21:22):
you mean the photographer. It's not not, I said, I said,
frand forgive me Annie Lee Boyd. Correction. Annie had already
been a rolling Stone. So Annie had already established her
reputation as a photographer when she was a rolling Stone. Um,
(21:44):
we started working together on the Stones tour. Um, that's
before Cox Sucker Blues or that was during that tour
ste opening or was that the big fellas coming up
from the Butterfly stage. Yeah, okay. Also, we kept thinking
every city we went to that they were going to
(22:05):
get arrested for singing store feka. Imagine. I'm trying to
remember other things that. Oh god, there's so much that
went on on that tour. I remember mixing to me
at the time that he couldn't get a pill. This
is a little gross, but he said, you can't get
a pill for diarrhea, but you can walk into any
store and buy a gun. And this was in ninety five,
(22:27):
and I had no idea that you could walk into
a store in the South and by a gun. I'm
from New York City, I'm from the Upper West Side
of Manhattan. I've never seen a gun until I saw
it on that plane with Lazeppelin. But it was I mean,
we weren't poor. Underground. Atlanta had a Less Dramatics store
(22:48):
where they sold Less Dramatics memorabilia. I mean, it just
was such a different time. It was like, for those
who don't know, Less Dramatics was the racist, the governor
governed or Georgia or something, or mayor of Atlanta or
some political person very much like Lindsey Graham with somebody
today or worse, I mean more well more whatever. I'm
(23:11):
not going to say it. That would be an allegedly
deaf nature um TB shock and we found anything out
else about now I know, I know, but I'm not
going to say it. Anyway. The bottom line is I, yeah,
he was the governor. Uh yeah. So I was sort
of a condulict between a lot of these guys, like
(23:32):
Richard was at r CIA records and convinced them to
sign David Bowie, Louid and the Kinks. So I introduced
David Bowie when he came to America, to lou Reid
and to Iggy pomp, both of whom he was very
inspired by. Let's put it that way, I who came
to my house, they hung out. We reduced to come
(23:55):
to my house because Richard produced his first album, although
it really did not do well because LOUI was a
mess at the time and it was a very checkered situation.
But then lou and Richard didn't talk for years, but
then Luke called him back and asked him to co
produce Street Hassle with him, which is a great record.
(24:15):
And so because of our friendship with Lou or my
friendship with Patti Smith, or my going on the Stones tour,
or John Lennon and Yoko letting me in their house
from to eighty to do interviews, Bowie would say to me,
what's Mick Jagger doing? And Mick Jagger would say to me,
don't tell that idea to Bowie because still steal it.
(24:36):
Or John Lennon would say to me, I just turned
stairway to Heaven. Tell Robert Plant it's great. And then
I would tell that to Robert Plant and he'd say
he only heard it now. I mean, it was like
I was friends with Brian Ferry when he was living
with Jerry Hall and she was dating and I put
quotes around that Mick Jagger and I never said a
(24:57):
word about it, because here's the other thing. I was
like a fly on the wall. I would not take
note in front of people. If we were doing a
real interview, i'd had my tape recorders on. You've seen them,
the analog tape recorders. I have three of them right behind.
(25:18):
I've ever producted an interview like digitally or they all
hold on, this is really actually, We'll do this tangent
for a second. Then I'll get back to the why
these guys and these women trusted me. When I first
interviewed Gentleman, and I went with one analog tape recorder
sonny cassette, and the tape funked up, So he let
(25:40):
me go back the next day and do it again.
So from that day on in nineteen seventy whenever it was,
when did they first moved to New York, I don't know,
it's around seventy two seventy. Yeah, from that day on,
I always took three tape recorders, and one of them
I would have an external mic. Two of them are not.
(26:00):
Inevitably one of the three would screw up, but at
least I had too, so I had a backup. When
I first interviewed Beyonce in two thousand and four or five,
when was the last Destiny show. I think it was
two thousand and five when she was Uncover and fare. Yeah.
So she looked at my setup and she just, very politely,
(26:24):
because she was very charming, said um, did you ever
think of moving up to digital? And I wasn't even embarrassed.
I just thought, oh, digital, I don't know, probably now.
And then I went home and I said, Richard, maybe
I should get a digital type recorder because people are
making fun of me and of digital. He got a
digital type recorder. He made a diagram for me that
(26:48):
was literally like in crayons, as if it were for
a five year old, with like step one, step to
do this, do that, press play color coded on the
god damn thing. And when I first interviewed Lady gagant
asn't Intend at the Beverly Hills Hotel, I very proudly
brought out the digital type of quarter along with my
(27:09):
reanalyog cassette. And guess which one didn't work? Digital? Digital? Correct?
You know, somebody says it was work. You know, I've
stuck with what I know. But back to being a
fly on the wall with these guys and these women
and whoever I interviewed, and much later on, I always
respected people's private lives. You have to remember there were
(27:30):
no There was no cellphones, no Internet, no Instagram, no
everybody with a telephone with a picture with a camera.
So these guys, especially the Zeppelin, who had wives and
children back in England, had us girlfriends. Let's put it
that way. Um, these were groupies and some of them
(27:50):
were really their girlfriends. And I thought, I'm not going
to write about this. They've got wives and kids back
in England and it's really none of my fucking knows,
and it's nobody else's business either. And I think in
that way I was trusted, not because I was writing
like puff pieces about them or anything. I just was
(28:13):
respectful and not invasive. To the point I may add
where I was so respectful and not invasive that I
toured a lot with Elton John. Of course I knew
he was gay. He was showing me his handbag collection
for that sakes, and I mean we were friends, but
he wasn't out and I was not about to out him,
(28:37):
whereas somebody else might have done that, but then they
never would have seen him again. So during his prime
that he was out or was just like no, no,
this was way before and before he even married that
woman Renato, who was his engineer. This was in the
early sevent days, and I'd be on the plane with
him and we'd be screaming and not even found in shriek,
(29:00):
and I, you know, we just talked very comfortably with
each other. I mean, I can't explain it. I think
in one way this is gonna sound braggy, but it's
not that I think I was more sophisticated than a
lot of the rock journalists. I was from New York.
(29:22):
None of them had gone to see Pilonious Monk at
the Vice, but I can assure you not at the
age I went anyway. And I just had a different
kind of confidence and I wasn't cowed by any of this.
And I just respected people's private lives. And if somebody
told me something is off the record, it was off
the record to this day. And can I ask you something, Yeah,
(29:47):
you don't have to tell a story, you don't have
to tell a name. But I'm just curious how many
secrets will go to your grave that you like, we'll
never admit to the world. Well, I know, in general,
you won't admit it because okay, well here's the thing. Now,
(30:08):
I'll tell you here's the thing. How many how many
secrets to finish? You know that Stevie Wonder is not
blind like how many secrets? Although when I did talk
to Stevie Wonder and we were in his studio and
I told him I had an analog costette recorders, I'm
still good like he knew what side one inside too was.
(30:30):
They took me into his kitchen, open the cabinet, pulled
that from the top shelf a that recorder, and gave
it to me. I still have it in the packaging
in one of my storage spaces because Stevie Wonder gave
it to me. I'm not going to music. And then
I ran into him and Mr Chile's last year and
I went up to him and I said, I'm Lisa
Robinson from Vanity Fair. Do you remember when Annie and
(30:51):
I came to photography and you gave me that machine?
He went, yeah, that that machine. So you know, I
was watching Hustlers the other night, and I know is
a line in there where Jennifer Lopez says, I swear
to God Stevie Wonder came into the club. He's not blind.
I mean, why would someone pretend to be blind? Come on, really,
(31:15):
how many secrets will you carry? Everything? There are certain
people who have passed away that now I feel like
I can say certain things about Okay, I mean, I
won't mention all the names. But when Sign of the
Times came out, I went to hear it at a
musician's apartment. He had an advanced pressing and he kept
(31:37):
looking at me to see what I thought, And of
course I was blown away, I mean blown away. And
he said to me about another rock star. He said
to me, this is Mick talking. He the other rock
star said to me if he was white, we'd all
be in troubling out of business. Now, I don't know
(32:01):
if that's been printed anywhere, and people know who said
it to your own. I don't know that I would
write that, because those two guys are still alive. Prince isn't.
But I did tell him that, and I told him
that at his house, and I told him several times
that he was an unbelievably underrated guitar player. And he said,
(32:24):
why don't you write that? I said, why don't you
let me interview you with a tape recorder and I'll
write whatever you want. You can take me taping you.
I mean I did that a little bit with Kendrick.
You know, sometimes in order to make somebody feel comfortable,
I would say things like, listen if you're really nervous
about something and you think I'm gonna misquote you, although
I won't because I transcribed every single one of my
(32:47):
interviews myself in Longhand and I never would miss. I'm
the only journalist I trust. Let's put it that way.
I don't like journalists. I don't trust many of them,
if any. And what I went through in the early
seventies with all those guys trying to blackpool me, I
mean the other women there were around. Lillian Roxton, who
(33:10):
wrote the Rock Encyclopedia, was my best friend at the time.
She was a very brilliant Bohemian Australian woman, and she
died in nineteen seventy three. Glorious Favers, who edited sixteen magazine,
she also died in nineteen eighty three. I think she
edited sixteen magazine, but before sixteen Magazine she was a
(33:34):
Norman Morel very high fashion designer model. In the forties,
she dated Letty Bruce. She dated Jim Morrison. I'm not
sure dated is the right word, but whatever. Those were
the only women who were my mentors. The rest of
the women writing about music were critics. There was Ellen
Willis to the New Yorker. It was Janet Maslin from
(33:55):
the Boston Phoenix. There was Ellen Sander from Life magazine,
and they reviewed things. They were critics. They didn't do interviews,
so I would do interviews with the tape on. Then
I would also hang out with them at after hours clubs,
at parties when they rehearsed in rehearsal studios in people's bedrooms,
(34:19):
like Earl mcgrathews had parties in New York and the
Stones would rehearse with Eric Clapton and Ronnie Wood. One
night in that room, I remember Annie taking pictures. Um
I would go out to the Andy Warhol's compound in
the Hampton's where they were staying. Before the cour I
would go. I would. I took Michael Jackson the Studio
(34:39):
fifty four, the first time he ever went. UM. I
took the Clash to Studio fifty four. I got the
Clash their record deal. I got Elvis Costello's record deal
I never made a dime from this. I was so stupid.
I never thought about money. I mean, we didn't think
about money. We were having fun. We were young. It
was the seventies and I was getting to see all
these cons so it's for free, and prior to that
(35:02):
I have to pay to go the concert. We were
getting all these albums for free. Um, since you were
there when it was rebel music and then it's solely morphed,
I guess one could say that that tour of the
Stones was sort of them becoming the seeds of what
(35:23):
we now knows the Rolling Stones more like an institution
and less about, you know, the Hydrid Daughters, rock rock
rebels that are coming to town to pillage. But when
when do you consider what was the year that you saw?
This is now a business, not just you know, rock
(35:45):
and roll. I saw it. I saw it right from
the beginning. I saw it with led Zeppel and when
I went to see them in Jacksonville in um July
nineteen seventy three, and they played to an eighty thousand
seats stadium. UM, I have a different question. M Lester bangs, Yeah,
(36:09):
can you tell our audience? Lester bangs, Yeah, I was
gonna say, of your contemporaries, I guess Lester has this,
you know, the cooler than the our you know, you know,
jaded critic. Was the legend bigger than what? Do you actually? Yes? Yes, yes, yes,
the myth was greater than Lester was drunk. Lester was okay. Richard,
(36:32):
my husband was first working for Buddha Records, and then
he was working for our CIA Records, so he had
expense accounts. So even though we were living in a
rent control department and we didn't have a lot of money,
he had an expense account. So I would order Chinese
food and we would feed and entertain these unbelievably what's
(36:56):
the word I used in my book, Um, I don't know.
It was a thankless test. Let's put it that way.
A lot of these guys would come and sleep on
our sofa. I felt like we were People said we
had this salon. We did not have a salon. We
had a homeless shelter. I mean, Dave Morsh would come
in from Detroit and sleep on our sofa when he
(37:19):
k lived there for almost a year, on our Florida
living room. You know, John Landa would come in from Boston,
when he was writing at the Phoenix before he discovered
the future of rock and roll in his name was
Bruce Springsteen. Um, Richard Meltzer and Lester Banks were there
a lot. Richard Meltzer was the real deal. He was
(37:40):
a better writer, he was smarter, he was crazy. Lester
was drunk. And Lester was also crazy and drunk and obnoxious.
Quite frankly, I mean, the myth and many of these
things was greater than the reality. He has been lying
so much, not in a small part by Cameron Crowe
(38:04):
and that movie. But I only remember the drunken nights
when we had to like whisper, like how are we
going to get Lester out of here? You know? Or
Richard Meltzer would be walking around with his shirt off
and a bottle of Scotch. And I don't know he's
still somewhere alive writing and I haven't read him recently,
(38:25):
but to me, he was the real thing. And Lester
got all the credit. And I don't know whether he
emulated Richard, but Richard was much more interesting and insightful
I felt anyway. So I have my observations and hip
hop journalism. When I saw the shift occur where like
(38:49):
people who I truly respected for their opinions. We're writing
about music as opposed to now, uh the unknown, the
intern from four years ago now getting their cover story.
You know, just like you know the level of of
hip hop journalism has going to ship in my opinion.
(39:13):
But for you, when when was music or rock journalism
at its at its at its best in your opinion?
And when did you notice that there's a shift? You know?
And in terms of no, no, just in terms of
(39:36):
really giving a good story. Um oftentimes like uh okay,
I know that if like say today Pitchfork, sometimes they'll
pan in an album just to impress their contemporaries to
you know, in that Lester Bangs way where you're not
writing your honest opinion about something you want to do
(39:59):
a performative. It might have been his honest opinion. I
mean he had very many run ins with Lou read.
I don't really Here's the thing, they never read this.
I don't know. I did what I did because I
wanted to read what I wanted to read. I mean,
Tony Morrison always said, write the book you want to read,
it's like, or write the book that you want to write,
(40:20):
or whatever. I don't know. Listen, when the roots started
playing instruments, why did you do that? Hip hop bands
weren't playing instruments. You did that? Why because you wanted
to hear a band that was doing hip hop play
instruments or doing wrap play instruments. I did what I
did because nobody else was doing it. So, I mean,
(40:41):
I never even thought about it. I just met it.
And I really didn't read a lot of that stuff.
I don't think I've ever looked at to start in
my life. I didn't look complex. I didn't look at
I maybe looked at the vibe and the source and
Rolling Stone a little bit, but I never really read
Rowing Stone because I didn't like the person who owned it,
(41:04):
and I didn't like the way women were treated in
that office. And it is really a battage of honor
as far as I'm concerned. And I never wrote for them.
And I'm being really blunt and frank with you. I'll
probably get a lot of haters about a lot of
this stuff, but I just I didn't really read it.
I read Cream Magazine a little bit. I mean I
(41:27):
read my husband's column. He did a rewire yourself years
before anybody was writing about technology. He wrote a book
called The Video Primer Richard Richard to two things that
stick out in my mind that is so brilliant. One
was everybody kept saying in the seventies, who's the nex Beetles,
Who's the net Spetles? Which fan is going to be
(41:47):
the next Beatles? And Richard said, the next Beatles is
going to be a machine. This was in ninety one, Okay,
so that that's who I was married to. He also
said about musicians because a one minute we were managing
some musicians, which really was not a smart move. But
he always said, managing an act is like running backwards
(42:09):
holding up a mirror. So you know, I just didn't
read this stuff, so I can't say when I think
it shifted, if it did shift what I read I read.
I don't know what what did I read? Rock journalism
and not really because nobody was doing what I was
interested in. I was doing what I was interested in.
(42:31):
And I'm not saying that to Sam Conceded or anything,
because a lot of people weren't interested in what I
was running about. But I was much more interested in
the human side, and I wasn't seeing that in too
many places. Certainly not when I started, and I'm not
even ture new. I mean I occasionally read a profile
in the New York Times magazine section about somebody I'm
(42:53):
interested in, and I'll stop halfway through because it just
so long. I mean, I also feel leave somebody wanting more.
You know. It's like I've taken as the biggest compliment
when I've done cover stories and Vanity Fair and people
have said to me, oh my god, I wish it
was longer. Job. That's how I feel. My My final
(43:17):
question to you is with with the life that you
you lived in all of your archives and memories and whatnot,
are you actively trying to seek I feel like the
next step for you is is basically either as a
(43:38):
movie or as a series like a Netflix series. Yeah,
like you're this this is a no brainer. Has has
anyone approached you about? You know? The couple of people
who have. I wouldn't want to really work with you.
Want to do something, I'll do something with you. I mean,
I'm serious, I don't know. I think between now and
(44:00):
if I don't know what I want to do, I
do want to place all this stuff. I mean, I
want to sell it because I need the money. But
I also I want to place all this stuff with
people who love it. That's why I first talked to
you about the albums in Europe, because I don't want
to see these albums go to some record store in
(44:20):
Brooklyn where somebody's going to buy one of this and
three of that into it. I just want the collection
to be with someone who loves it. You know. Que
actually did make his way over here one night to
look at them, and he started looking up every album
and praising it and figuring out the prices, and then
he said, I'm sending my assistant back to see you
(44:42):
next week and we're going to do this. And that
was a year ago. No, that was one, two, three,
three and a half years ago. I think, Um, that's
why I said I'm coming over there to scoop them. Okay,
after I get my second vaccine track. I have never
(45:04):
been so happy in my life when they lowered the
age and I'm, you know, old enough finally to get
this that scene. But honestly, I want the archives that tapes.
I do want it to go maybe to an institution
where people can listen to it and study it and
learn from it, or do a series of podcasts. Or
(45:26):
do a series of documentaries. I don't know. The problem
is I always was too busy just earning a living
and getting through every day. And now starting this serious
radio show, which is just once a week, I'll be
able to talk, which I loved been writing. Um, I
don't know if I want to write another book, I
(45:46):
don't know. I don't know who else I want to interview.
I mean, you talk about how did I know the
future of rock and roll was cb GBS. I didn't.
I just was there when it happened and it just
seemed right. It was fun. Um. If I had been
able to predict the future, first of all, as friend
Levi it says, I would pick that a lot of tickets.
(46:09):
But also I would have known about hip hop before
I did. Um, because that's inexcusable that I was living
in New York City and I didn't even know that
this was going on for quite a while. Because, as
I said, it's still the music that it's on my iPod.
That and thank Sinatra and some florious Moanero Garner, Well,
(46:32):
thank you, Lisa. Steve. You want to tell ask me something, Yeah, like, well,
you know, why why aren't you just airing these um,
these legendary um interviews that you have as as complete
as a podcast as a podcast, yeah, well, because somebody
hasn't made me the write offer yet. When they do,
(46:52):
I will because yeah, I mean the show I'm doing
for serious is just a call in show, because I
wanted to do something like Stephen A. Smith. Does you
know I wanted people calling in but for music? Well
he does have for sports. I'm going to do it
for music, but I could do it for basketball tour.
I could name you the starting five on all thirty teams.
(47:14):
You know, no one loves the Knicks more than you do.
And I'm like, I'm one of those long man. So
I think you're happy about three wins in a row
that they had come on. At least they're competitive. At
least that's watchable. It's not like it was. Julius Randall
is good. I love him manual quickly, and don't even
(47:35):
get me started on the new Jersey nets because that's
the whole other thing. Well, Lisa, we thank you. We've
been trying to make this happen for years. I'm proud
that you got your technology set up just to be
able to do zoom. Yeah, thank you. I had to
hire and I t guy to do that. I thought, yeah,
look at those albums and years. Seriously. Yeah, I just
(47:57):
want to say I'm proud of you getting over your
technology fears and doing us because you know, you and
I often had the flint stone bird writing a message
sending pigeons to our windows kind of relationships. So one
day I'm gonna get you using the iPhone for real.
I have an iPhone. I listened to music on it.
(48:18):
I go to YouTube, and I Google, and I make
phone calls outgoing when I traveled, when I used to travel. Okay,
Lisa Robinson, ladies and gentleman, question left Supreme woman, thank
you so much, Flo and Shika Steve, thank you. We
will see you on the next go round. Thank you
ladies and gentle Okay, thanks guys. Yoh what's up? Sponte?
(48:44):
Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at
QLs and let us know what you think. Who should
be next to sit down with us? Don't forget to
subscribe to our podcast right much Love Supreme is a
production of I Heart Radio. For more pdcasts from my
Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
(49:04):
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,
Quest Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio
Ladies and Gentlemen Um. Right now, Lisa Robinson is showing us, Uh,
we're on zoom right now, and she was sober her
illustrious record collection, and I'm celebrating right now. Okay, what's
(00:21):
behind me is a portion, not all of them, of
my five thousand hours of interviews, or all of the
original cassettes, plus manic backups Richard did my husband before
he died, on CD because he didn't believe in the
clown the Internet or the computers, so he made backups
(00:44):
on two or three CDs of every single cassette. Then
I had to hire in an I T guy after
Richard died, and he copied it onto two different computers,
three external hard drives, and three backups of the external
hard drugs and secure undisclosed locations. So what's behind me
(01:06):
all the original interviews with some of them. I have
to say that I've known you about twenty years, and
often I have I haven't stayed up at night, but
I've definitely wondered are you properly going to archive your
your collection, your collection of notes, and you have like
(01:28):
original hotel notes in stationary I haven't original question. Michael
Jackson told that when he was eleven that I kept
in a safety deposit box for years where he is
this the infamous one where he called himself a nigger.
He wrote, The question was what's your nickname? And he
(01:49):
said the nose and then he wrote n I g
one word one g e er, but he crossed that out. Yeah,
that's not about I have a floor I have. Where
did you hear about it other than me? Because I
have nobody else. Okay, So I have letters, yeah, letters
(02:11):
from Bowie and John Lennon and everybody on the planet,
and four storage spaces that I spend fifty thousand dollars
a year in addition to this museum I'm living in,
and an office across the street that also houses a
lot of ship And in terms of really properly appraising
or archiving it, I've been too busy trying to earn
(02:34):
a living for all these years. I just haven't had
the time. So the audio archives are pretty well documented now,
they're on a bunch of databases. The photos I have
trunks and trunks and trunks of original photos from Bob
Grew and Lee Childers, Annie Liebovitz, Peter huge are maple thorpe?
(02:57):
I mean so much stuff that I never hung any
of it up. It's in storage, It's in my house
and boxes and closets. Um, I actually have something, maybe
you would want it. I was in Nashville and I
was in a thrift store and there was one of
those huge posters of a black barber shop, you know,
(03:21):
the drawings with the fabulous kind of old like some
girls kind of wigs. I bought it. I bought it,
and I shipped it back to New York And this
was in two thousand and four maybe, and I said
to friend, what should I do with this? I was
(03:43):
going to either give it to Tony Morrison or that
they an artist and because they collect that kind of stuff.
And she said, well, I wouldn't display it. It's really
not correct for you to display it. So it's hiding
somewhere in a closet. It's awesome though, it is so
great anyway, Okay, I had to properly introduce you, ladies
(04:05):
and gentlemen. This is course left supreme. Um. I knew
the second that her mic was on, the stories would come.
And of course the stories came even before I did
the proper introduction. I will say that our guests, Damn
Near is a pioneer or inventive rock and roll journalism.
There was a time in your life where making a
(04:27):
living writing about the lives of rock stars was a
questionable thing. One couldn't make a living off of it.
So I will say that our guest today is a
pioneer in terms of one that actually made their full
time career kind of journaling the lives of others. Name
(04:49):
them New Music, Express, Cream Magazine, The New York Post,
even um, all the way down at Vanity Fair, if
you will. She's probably the trusted plug some one in
the rooms. He's literally seen everyone and everything, and um.
These types of interviews are my favorite because oftentimes I
(05:10):
say that, um, you'll learn more about a subject um
based on the extra eyes in the room, UM, not
necessarily the subject themselves. So name them from Jagger to Richards,
to Page and Plant to Bowie, Read Lennon, Oh, no, Jackson, Bono,
(05:33):
I forgot what Bono's I forgot what Bono's last name is.
It's it's a bus, that's right. Real name is Paul
Paul Houston. That's right. It's like an uncle of my Um,
you don't. I don't recognize any of those names. Did
you ever meet anybody famous? I will say that I
highly recommend as far as memoirs are concerned. Um both
(05:57):
both of her books. Uh no, never asked me about
the girls and there goes Gravity. Those are probably to
my favorite memoirs. I don't know, like I journalists to
me or like just zequal rock stars as the actual
rock stars themselves. So please welcome to quest Left Supreme
Lisa Robinson. Okay, what are you saying, Steve? No, No,
(06:22):
I made my joke. Now you made famous just for
me out out the gate Lisa. For um our guests
that might not be familiar with your your pedigree in
your history, could you please give me three random historical
(06:44):
I was there moments that that come come to mind.
You know this gives you a chance with Led Zeppelin.
When it to a manager pulled out a gun. I
was on the other end of Peter Peter Grant. It
was Richard called at any rate. I was wait, wait,
you can't just glide by that like second, you just
(07:07):
ask the three random you want me to tell you
the whole story? We'd be on the front that we
hold on a second, let me just say something. I'm
doing a serious radio show by the way, Serious XM,
starting tomorrow night from seven to eight pm, and it's
called Call Me with Lisa Robinson because as you know,
I'm still in an old BlackBerry and I only know
how to text on it, and I like, I like
(07:31):
people to actually call me at any rate. Okay, So
that's one Texas Instruments in business. That's that much. The second,
I am Worldwide West. Who's with the next? Now? My
favorite team are the only people and who still use
a BlackBerry at anyway? Back to the three random incidents,
(07:53):
let me think I can't think of just three out
of thousands. But okay, but let's up room with a gun.
Michael Jackson calling me on the phone and crying that
he did not want a tour with his brothers in
ight on that victory tour was the style. I don't
remember all the dates, okay, so oh man huh. I
(08:15):
don't want to talk about the time that Jagger had
to borrow my underpants because he lost his jock strap,
but I guess that's been well documented. Here's the point.
I just plus say two things you said all the
people that I had interviewed, and or you started to
talk about Bowie, Louis, the stone Zeppelin, Michael Jackson, et cetera.
(08:38):
You mentioned one woman, Yoko Ono. The reason I wrote
nobody ever asked me about the girls is because I
had interviewed Tina Turner, Joni Mitchell, Mary j. Blange, Linda
ronstad Um, I mean, everybody after Janis Joplin. Thank god
it was someone before my time. And the point is
I always had to answer of questions like what's Eminem
(09:02):
really like? What's kind of like? I mean, you know
you probably get the same thing. What was John Lennon
really like? What was David Bowie really like? And I
finally got to the point after having written There Those Gravity,
which was mostly all about guys except for one chapter
on Lady Garba, I thought it's about time I started
dealing with the women. So that was one thing I
(09:23):
just wanted to clarify. And the other thing is when
you said that I was a pioneer at a time
when no one was making a living writing about rock
and rome musicians or a popular culture. We still don't
make a living doing that. So I just like to
clarify that for the record. Um, we were having too
(09:43):
much fun. Nobody was talking about money, Nobody was thinking
about that. In the seventies, I would make like forty
dollars a week from a syndicated column or editing Hit
Parado with my husband, or going on tour with Zeppelin
and the Stones are hanging out and CBGBs every and
I thought this was great. I mean, we were in
a rent control department. I'm still in a rent stabilized department,
(10:08):
saying when we moved into the nineties seventy six, and
it's like a museum. I never decorated it. It's just
full of books and records and interviews and saw memorabilia
that I don't trust to leave in Manhattan mini storage. Um.
But it just was different time. It was like, also,
(10:29):
I mere, you know, you grew up in this business.
I mean, I even think I saw as a kid
Lee Andrews and the Hearts. I don't know, maybe at
the Brooklyn Fox or one of those places I snuck
out of my house as a teenager to go see
Colonious Monk of the Five Spot or on Coltrane or
Aneto Day and stand Gets at the Village Vanguard. But
(10:53):
also to go to those early rock and roll shows
at the Brooklyn Fox Theater. I don't remember going to
the Apollo, but I do remember going to the Apollo
much later when I was teaching school in Harlem in
the sixties. But I grew up with all this music.
I used to listen to it under the covers with
(11:15):
the transistor radio, you know, that old cliche, and it
just made me feel like there was a great, sexy,
interesting world out there. And I was a fan. And
I grew up in a left wing household that played
Lead Belly and Lady Got Three, and I knew about
Mama and may Thornton and sister Rozette Thorpe, and you
(11:35):
know a lot of stuff that no other journalists when
I was starting out knew about um except from my husband,
who was on w n e WFM when it was
nineteen sixty nine free form music. And I heard his
voice in the middle of the night. He was on
the graveyard shift, and I thought he he had a
(11:58):
very sexy voice, and be he played unbelievable music and
he got fired five times. The first time was they're
playing music what they called unfamiliar music, which was like
can Tina Turner, Tina Turner in Vanetta Fields doing a
battle on something got a hold on me. I'll never
forget it. Pprnold doing first cut as the Deepest Um,
(12:22):
Curtis Mayfield and the Impressions because he also worked at Buddha,
so we're working so yeah. So Richard got fired for
playing unfamiliar music, which was black music. Then they hired
him back again because he was like the house tippy.
And he got fired for playing Jimmy Hendrickson's star spangled
(12:42):
banner because they told him it was on patriarchic. Then
they hired him again, and I think he played the
stooges in the velvets, but like really, you know, some
of the sicker stuff like I want to be your dog,
or Heroin or white light, white heat, or just kind
of noise stuff. They fired him again, and I think
the last time they hired him he just went on
(13:04):
the air, flush the toilet and walked off. And so
this was my introduction to the music. I went to
work for him during his filing. Five months later we
got married. He turned one of his columns over to
me in England, and that's kind of how it started.
He opened a door and I bulged through. What I'll
(13:31):
say is based on you know, I've collected a lot
of old periodicals and all those things, so I've seen
your work, you know. I will say that the difference
between your brand of documenting a moment was way different
than say, you know, the Beatles would land in America
in the sixties and have a press conference like at
(13:53):
the airport or at the hotel. People have random questions.
It's like audience crowd work whatever. But your brand work,
how did you know that? I mean, it's somewhere between
like page you know, I know that you've done in
depth Q and A interviews as well, but you know,
(14:13):
you doing quick takes like you know, Bowie hung out
at Max's Kansas City and he wore a leopard T shirt.
Like people weren't describing like what people were wearing or
any of those things. Like you you were like the
precursor at like page six. So how do you know.
(14:34):
I don't know about page six, but maybe MTV and
fashion and style. Yeah, the idea of it, right. Well,
first of all, thank god the Beatles were before my time.
Something else before my time. But I never asked a
question at a press conference because I always asked more
interesting questions, and I didn't want anybody else getting the
(14:54):
answers on Kanye. Kanye had a listening party once for
which is the album as a late graduation that John
Bryan produced with WE Major and Gold Digger on it. Anyway,
he had a listening party for that with a whole
bunch of press in the room, and Jay was there,
(15:15):
and I'm friendly with John Brian and I knew he
produced the record, and I had met Kanye several times
through John, and when they played WE Major, I went
ballistic because to this day, I still think it's the
best thing he's ever done. But it was like a
Phil Specter's symphony, and I just went crazy. So I
had to ask a question, and I raised my hand
(15:38):
and Jay went all Lisa as a question, Lisa as
a question, and I said, how many tracks are on
WE Major? And they had no idea, they didn't know,
they didn't know the answer, and so they started calling
me the stumper. For a long time, actually, Jay started
calling me, kept going the Stumper, and I went home
called John Brian who told me that he got it
(15:59):
from some kid and to go artuado loop of it
at any rate, what I did as a journalist from
the jump was I was interested in their lives, their music.
I mean, when I met Jimmy Page, I would talk
to him about Muddy Waters and Hall and Wolf and
Elmore James and Willie Dixon, who they ripped off allegedly,
(16:22):
although I think they had to pay you. Well, I
get very nervous about that. So you know, it's like
a Diesels and Mayor thing, allegedly allegedly allegedly anyway, so
so um. But I also talked to Aubert Plant about
Fairport Convention in Kaleidoscope and Incredible String Band and Jeremy
(16:43):
Mitchell because I grew up the same loving the same
music they did, and I didn't love a lot of
the folks stuff so much. Then I grew to I
did like the Incredible String Band, but I'm Kaleidoscope. But
I would talk to them about their musical taste. I
would write about their clothes. I mean, I'll never forget
(17:05):
when I was in New Orleans with those guys the
first time I ever interviewed them lengthully, Robert was wearing
a red nile on speedo bikini, parading around the pool.
Parading is the only word I could use for it.
And Jimmy Page was wearing a maroon velvet jacket in
(17:25):
eighty three degree weather, and I remember writing that it
was sweltering at eighty three degree weather, so some of
the climate change that was three. Anyway, I just started
talking to about music. I started talking about their clothes.
And this was a time that people don't know. They
(17:47):
were written about as a heavy, cheesy, heavy metal band.
Every male journalist, every one of my so called colleagues
who threatened to quit Cream magazine when I started did
to do a column called Belegnza, which was named after
a black pimp catalog, and it was all about clothes.
(18:07):
And all these guys threatened to leave the magazine because
they said it was decadent. I shouldn't be writing about clothes.
This was the alternative culture. This was the revolution. I mean,
this is in Detroit, by the way, where the White
Panthers and John Sinclair were sitting around a table plotting
revolution while the women were in the kitchen cooking. So
(18:28):
I would just like to make that point about the
MC five um, even though they were a great band. However,
I would always talk to these guys just on a
level of mutual musician fandom and asked them about their lives.
I didn't review their records, I didn't review their concerts.
(18:50):
I didn't do any boring analysis shit about their lyrics.
And I just think they will relieved. I mean again,
this was at a time when John Mendelssohn wrote in
Rolling Stone about the lemon song that was on a
Zeppelin I think the first album, maybe the second, and
he said, Robert Plant sings notes only a dog came here.
(19:11):
And if I remember that from three, you can be
certain that Robert Plant remembers it. And Jimmy would bitch
about the reviews all the time, and I would just say,
I don't give a shit about reviews. You don't understand
your music is majestic. You combine the hard knock and
the folk music and Eastern stuff in all this, and
(19:31):
years from now your music will be remembered. And those
magazines and newspapers were wrapped fish and sure enough, now
Zepper is considered one of the greatest. I mean, eggs
on Main Street was hanned. It was my favorite Rolling
Stones record and when it first came out. So I
(19:52):
think part of the reason that I have the access
to these bands was a I was a woman, but
I was not sleeping with them, and I was not
taking drugs with them. I was newly married. Richard was
much cuter than any of them were anyway, and smarter um.
And when I first met mcjaggard, the first thing I
(20:14):
said to him was those of the tackiest shoes I've
ever seen, because he was wearing some sort of sequin
Papagallo encrusted shoes. It was backstage at an Our Captain concert,
and you know that was refreshing to them. People would
meet mc jaguin, they'd be like intimidated. I was from
New York. I wasn't intimidated. Well, okay, so what I
(20:37):
want to know is, obviously you're from even though you're
of the time, you were clearly thinking future generation. Case
in point, like Prince opening for the Stones in l A.
Even though he himself as a baby boomer, his music
and his presentations for generation next, it's for what's next.
(21:00):
So obviously you know you you were forward thinking. Who
who were the other women in that era that was documenting?
I know that, uh, you know you you spoke of
a time where you and and fran Leave would's came
up together on that the Stones Tour. But like, we're there,
(21:22):
you mean the photographer. It's not not, I said, I said,
frand forgive me Annie Lee Boyd. Correction. Annie had already
been a rolling Stone. So Annie had already established her
reputation as a photographer when she was a rolling Stone. Um,
(21:44):
we started working together on the Stones tour. Um, that's
before Cox Sucker Blues or that was during that tour
ste opening or was that the big fellas coming up
from the Butterfly stage. Yeah, okay. Also, we kept thinking
every city we went to that they were going to
(22:05):
get arrested for singing store feka. Imagine. I'm trying to
remember other things that. Oh god, there's so much that
went on on that tour. I remember mixing to me
at the time that he couldn't get a pill. This
is a little gross, but he said, you can't get
a pill for diarrhea, but you can walk into any
store and buy a gun. And this was in ninety five,
(22:27):
and I had no idea that you could walk into
a store in the South and by a gun. I'm
from New York City, I'm from the Upper West Side
of Manhattan. I've never seen a gun until I saw
it on that plane with Lazeppelin. But it was I mean,
we weren't poor. Underground. Atlanta had a Less Dramatics store
(22:48):
where they sold Less Dramatics memorabilia. I mean, it just
was such a different time. It was like, for those
who don't know, Less Dramatics was the racist, the governor
governed or Georgia or something, or mayor of Atlanta or
some political person very much like Lindsey Graham with somebody
today or worse, I mean more well more whatever. I'm
(23:11):
not going to say it. That would be an allegedly
deaf nature um TB shock and we found anything out
else about now I know, I know, but I'm not
going to say it. Anyway. The bottom line is I, yeah,
he was the governor. Uh yeah. So I was sort
of a condulict between a lot of these guys, like
(23:32):
Richard was at r CIA records and convinced them to
sign David Bowie, Louid and the Kinks. So I introduced
David Bowie when he came to America, to lou Reid
and to Iggy pomp, both of whom he was very
inspired by. Let's put it that way, I who came
to my house, they hung out. We reduced to come
(23:55):
to my house because Richard produced his first album, although
it really did not do well because LOUI was a
mess at the time and it was a very checkered situation.
But then lou and Richard didn't talk for years, but
then Luke called him back and asked him to co
produce Street Hassle with him, which is a great record.
(24:15):
And so because of our friendship with Lou or my
friendship with Patti Smith, or my going on the Stones tour,
or John Lennon and Yoko letting me in their house
from to eighty to do interviews, Bowie would say to me,
what's Mick Jagger doing? And Mick Jagger would say to me,
don't tell that idea to Bowie because still steal it.
(24:36):
Or John Lennon would say to me, I just turned
stairway to Heaven. Tell Robert Plant it's great. And then
I would tell that to Robert Plant and he'd say
he only heard it now. I mean, it was like
I was friends with Brian Ferry when he was living
with Jerry Hall and she was dating and I put
quotes around that Mick Jagger and I never said a
(24:57):
word about it, because here's the other thing. I was
like a fly on the wall. I would not take
note in front of people. If we were doing a
real interview, i'd had my tape recorders on. You've seen them,
the analog tape recorders. I have three of them right behind.
(25:18):
I've ever producted an interview like digitally or they all
hold on, this is really actually, We'll do this tangent
for a second. Then I'll get back to the why
these guys and these women trusted me. When I first
interviewed Gentleman, and I went with one analog tape recorder
sonny cassette, and the tape funked up, So he let
(25:40):
me go back the next day and do it again.
So from that day on in nineteen seventy whenever it was,
when did they first moved to New York, I don't know,
it's around seventy two seventy. Yeah, from that day on,
I always took three tape recorders, and one of them
I would have an external mic. Two of them are not.
(26:00):
Inevitably one of the three would screw up, but at
least I had too, so I had a backup. When
I first interviewed Beyonce in two thousand and four or five,
when was the last Destiny show. I think it was
two thousand and five when she was Uncover and fare. Yeah.
So she looked at my setup and she just, very politely,
(26:24):
because she was very charming, said um, did you ever
think of moving up to digital? And I wasn't even embarrassed.
I just thought, oh, digital, I don't know, probably now.
And then I went home and I said, Richard, maybe
I should get a digital type recorder because people are
making fun of me and of digital. He got a
digital type recorder. He made a diagram for me that
(26:48):
was literally like in crayons, as if it were for
a five year old, with like step one, step to
do this, do that, press play color coded on the
god damn thing. And when I first interviewed Lady gagant
asn't Intend at the Beverly Hills Hotel, I very proudly
brought out the digital type of quarter along with my
(27:09):
reanalyog cassette. And guess which one didn't work? Digital? Digital? Correct?
You know, somebody says it was work. You know, I've
stuck with what I know. But back to being a
fly on the wall with these guys and these women
and whoever I interviewed, and much later on, I always
respected people's private lives. You have to remember there were
(27:30):
no There was no cellphones, no Internet, no Instagram, no
everybody with a telephone with a picture with a camera.
So these guys, especially the Zeppelin, who had wives and
children back in England, had us girlfriends. Let's put it
that way. Um, these were groupies and some of them
(27:50):
were really their girlfriends. And I thought, I'm not going
to write about this. They've got wives and kids back
in England and it's really none of my fucking knows,
and it's nobody else's business either. And I think in
that way I was trusted, not because I was writing
like puff pieces about them or anything. I just was
(28:13):
respectful and not invasive. To the point I may add
where I was so respectful and not invasive that I
toured a lot with Elton John. Of course I knew
he was gay. He was showing me his handbag collection
for that sakes, and I mean we were friends, but
he wasn't out and I was not about to out him,
(28:37):
whereas somebody else might have done that, but then they
never would have seen him again. So during his prime
that he was out or was just like no, no,
this was way before and before he even married that
woman Renato, who was his engineer. This was in the
early sevent days, and I'd be on the plane with
him and we'd be screaming and not even found in shriek,
(29:00):
and I, you know, we just talked very comfortably with
each other. I mean, I can't explain it. I think
in one way this is gonna sound braggy, but it's
not that I think I was more sophisticated than a
lot of the rock journalists. I was from New York.
(29:22):
None of them had gone to see Pilonious Monk at
the Vice, but I can assure you not at the
age I went anyway. And I just had a different
kind of confidence and I wasn't cowed by any of this.
And I just respected people's private lives. And if somebody
told me something is off the record, it was off
the record to this day. And can I ask you something, Yeah,
(29:47):
you don't have to tell a story, you don't have
to tell a name. But I'm just curious how many
secrets will go to your grave that you like, we'll
never admit to the world. Well, I know, in general,
you won't admit it because okay, well here's the thing. Now,
(30:08):
I'll tell you here's the thing. How many how many
secrets to finish? You know that Stevie Wonder is not
blind like how many secrets? Although when I did talk
to Stevie Wonder and we were in his studio and
I told him I had an analog costette recorders, I'm
still good like he knew what side one inside too was.
(30:30):
They took me into his kitchen, open the cabinet, pulled
that from the top shelf a that recorder, and gave
it to me. I still have it in the packaging
in one of my storage spaces because Stevie Wonder gave
it to me. I'm not going to music. And then
I ran into him and Mr Chile's last year and
I went up to him and I said, I'm Lisa
Robinson from Vanity Fair. Do you remember when Annie and
(30:51):
I came to photography and you gave me that machine?
He went, yeah, that that machine. So you know, I
was watching Hustlers the other night, and I know is
a line in there where Jennifer Lopez says, I swear
to God Stevie Wonder came into the club. He's not blind.
I mean, why would someone pretend to be blind? Come on, really,
(31:15):
how many secrets will you carry? Everything? There are certain
people who have passed away that now I feel like
I can say certain things about Okay, I mean, I
won't mention all the names. But when Sign of the
Times came out, I went to hear it at a
musician's apartment. He had an advanced pressing and he kept
(31:37):
looking at me to see what I thought, And of
course I was blown away, I mean blown away. And
he said to me about another rock star. He said
to me, this is Mick talking. He the other rock
star said to me if he was white, we'd all
be in troubling out of business. Now, I don't know
(32:01):
if that's been printed anywhere, and people know who said
it to your own. I don't know that I would
write that, because those two guys are still alive. Prince isn't.
But I did tell him that, and I told him
that at his house, and I told him several times
that he was an unbelievably underrated guitar player. And he said,
(32:24):
why don't you write that? I said, why don't you
let me interview you with a tape recorder and I'll
write whatever you want. You can take me taping you.
I mean I did that a little bit with Kendrick.
You know, sometimes in order to make somebody feel comfortable,
I would say things like, listen if you're really nervous
about something and you think I'm gonna misquote you, although
I won't because I transcribed every single one of my
(32:47):
interviews myself in Longhand and I never would miss. I'm
the only journalist I trust. Let's put it that way.
I don't like journalists. I don't trust many of them,
if any. And what I went through in the early
seventies with all those guys trying to blackpool me, I
mean the other women there were around. Lillian Roxton, who
(33:10):
wrote the Rock Encyclopedia, was my best friend at the time.
She was a very brilliant Bohemian Australian woman, and she
died in nineteen seventy three. Glorious Favers, who edited sixteen magazine,
she also died in nineteen eighty three. I think she
edited sixteen magazine, but before sixteen Magazine she was a
(33:34):
Norman Morel very high fashion designer model. In the forties,
she dated Letty Bruce. She dated Jim Morrison. I'm not
sure dated is the right word, but whatever. Those were
the only women who were my mentors. The rest of
the women writing about music were critics. There was Ellen
Willis to the New Yorker. It was Janet Maslin from
(33:55):
the Boston Phoenix. There was Ellen Sander from Life magazine,
and they reviewed things. They were critics. They didn't do interviews,
so I would do interviews with the tape on. Then
I would also hang out with them at after hours clubs,
at parties when they rehearsed in rehearsal studios in people's bedrooms,
(34:19):
like Earl mcgrathews had parties in New York and the
Stones would rehearse with Eric Clapton and Ronnie Wood. One
night in that room, I remember Annie taking pictures. Um
I would go out to the Andy Warhol's compound in
the Hampton's where they were staying. Before the cour I
would go. I would. I took Michael Jackson the Studio
(34:39):
fifty four, the first time he ever went. UM. I
took the Clash to Studio fifty four. I got the
Clash their record deal. I got Elvis Costello's record deal
I never made a dime from this. I was so stupid.
I never thought about money. I mean, we didn't think
about money. We were having fun. We were young. It
was the seventies and I was getting to see all
these cons so it's for free, and prior to that
(35:02):
I have to pay to go the concert. We were
getting all these albums for free. Um, since you were
there when it was rebel music and then it's solely morphed,
I guess one could say that that tour of the
Stones was sort of them becoming the seeds of what
(35:23):
we now knows the Rolling Stones more like an institution
and less about, you know, the Hydrid Daughters, rock rock
rebels that are coming to town to pillage. But when
when do you consider what was the year that you saw?
This is now a business, not just you know, rock
(35:45):
and roll. I saw it. I saw it right from
the beginning. I saw it with led Zeppel and when
I went to see them in Jacksonville in um July
nineteen seventy three, and they played to an eighty thousand
seats stadium. UM, I have a different question. M Lester bangs, Yeah,
(36:09):
can you tell our audience? Lester bangs, Yeah, I was
gonna say, of your contemporaries, I guess Lester has this,
you know, the cooler than the our you know, you know,
jaded critic. Was the legend bigger than what? Do you actually? Yes? Yes, yes, yes,
the myth was greater than Lester was drunk. Lester was okay. Richard,
(36:32):
my husband was first working for Buddha Records, and then
he was working for our CIA Records, so he had
expense accounts. So even though we were living in a
rent control department and we didn't have a lot of money,
he had an expense account. So I would order Chinese
food and we would feed and entertain these unbelievably what's
(36:56):
the word I used in my book, Um, I don't know.
It was a thankless test. Let's put it that way.
A lot of these guys would come and sleep on
our sofa. I felt like we were People said we
had this salon. We did not have a salon. We
had a homeless shelter. I mean, Dave Morsh would come
in from Detroit and sleep on our sofa when he
(37:19):
k lived there for almost a year, on our Florida
living room. You know, John Landa would come in from Boston,
when he was writing at the Phoenix before he discovered
the future of rock and roll in his name was
Bruce Springsteen. Um, Richard Meltzer and Lester Banks were there
a lot. Richard Meltzer was the real deal. He was
(37:40):
a better writer, he was smarter, he was crazy. Lester
was drunk. And Lester was also crazy and drunk and obnoxious.
Quite frankly, I mean, the myth and many of these
things was greater than the reality. He has been lying
so much, not in a small part by Cameron Crowe
(38:04):
and that movie. But I only remember the drunken nights
when we had to like whisper, like how are we
going to get Lester out of here? You know? Or
Richard Meltzer would be walking around with his shirt off
and a bottle of Scotch. And I don't know he's
still somewhere alive writing and I haven't read him recently,
(38:25):
but to me, he was the real thing. And Lester
got all the credit. And I don't know whether he
emulated Richard, but Richard was much more interesting and insightful
I felt anyway. So I have my observations and hip
hop journalism. When I saw the shift occur where like
(38:49):
people who I truly respected for their opinions. We're writing
about music as opposed to now, uh the unknown, the
intern from four years ago now getting their cover story.
You know, just like you know the level of of
hip hop journalism has going to ship in my opinion.
(39:13):
But for you, when when was music or rock journalism
at its at its at its best in your opinion?
And when did you notice that there's a shift? You know?
And in terms of no, no, just in terms of
(39:36):
really giving a good story. Um oftentimes like uh okay,
I know that if like say today Pitchfork, sometimes they'll
pan in an album just to impress their contemporaries to
you know, in that Lester Bangs way where you're not
writing your honest opinion about something you want to do
(39:59):
a performative. It might have been his honest opinion. I
mean he had very many run ins with Lou read.
I don't really Here's the thing, they never read this.
I don't know. I did what I did because I
wanted to read what I wanted to read. I mean,
Tony Morrison always said, write the book you want to read,
it's like, or write the book that you want to write,
(40:20):
or whatever. I don't know. Listen, when the roots started
playing instruments, why did you do that? Hip hop bands
weren't playing instruments. You did that? Why because you wanted
to hear a band that was doing hip hop play
instruments or doing wrap play instruments. I did what I
did because nobody else was doing it. So, I mean,
(40:41):
I never even thought about it. I just met it.
And I really didn't read a lot of that stuff.
I don't think I've ever looked at to start in
my life. I didn't look complex. I didn't look at
I maybe looked at the vibe and the source and
Rolling Stone a little bit, but I never really read
Rowing Stone because I didn't like the person who owned it,
(41:04):
and I didn't like the way women were treated in
that office. And it is really a battage of honor
as far as I'm concerned. And I never wrote for them.
And I'm being really blunt and frank with you. I'll
probably get a lot of haters about a lot of
this stuff, but I just I didn't really read it.
I read Cream Magazine a little bit. I mean I
(41:27):
read my husband's column. He did a rewire yourself years
before anybody was writing about technology. He wrote a book
called The Video Primer Richard Richard to two things that
stick out in my mind that is so brilliant. One
was everybody kept saying in the seventies, who's the nex Beetles,
Who's the net Spetles? Which fan is going to be
(41:47):
the next Beatles? And Richard said, the next Beatles is
going to be a machine. This was in ninety one, Okay,
so that that's who I was married to. He also
said about musicians because a one minute we were managing
some musicians, which really was not a smart move. But
he always said, managing an act is like running backwards
(42:09):
holding up a mirror. So you know, I just didn't
read this stuff, so I can't say when I think
it shifted, if it did shift what I read I read.
I don't know what what did I read? Rock journalism
and not really because nobody was doing what I was
interested in. I was doing what I was interested in.
(42:31):
And I'm not saying that to Sam Conceded or anything,
because a lot of people weren't interested in what I
was running about. But I was much more interested in
the human side, and I wasn't seeing that in too
many places. Certainly not when I started, and I'm not
even ture new. I mean I occasionally read a profile
in the New York Times magazine section about somebody I'm
(42:53):
interested in, and I'll stop halfway through because it just
so long. I mean, I also feel leave somebody wanting more.
You know. It's like I've taken as the biggest compliment
when I've done cover stories and Vanity Fair and people
have said to me, oh my god, I wish it
was longer. Job. That's how I feel. My My final
(43:17):
question to you is with with the life that you
you lived in all of your archives and memories and whatnot,
are you actively trying to seek I feel like the
next step for you is is basically either as a
(43:38):
movie or as a series like a Netflix series. Yeah,
like you're this this is a no brainer. Has has
anyone approached you about? You know? The couple of people
who have. I wouldn't want to really work with you.
Want to do something, I'll do something with you. I mean,
I'm serious, I don't know. I think between now and
(44:00):
if I don't know what I want to do, I
do want to place all this stuff. I mean, I
want to sell it because I need the money. But
I also I want to place all this stuff with
people who love it. That's why I first talked to
you about the albums in Europe, because I don't want
to see these albums go to some record store in
(44:20):
Brooklyn where somebody's going to buy one of this and
three of that into it. I just want the collection
to be with someone who loves it. You know. Que
actually did make his way over here one night to
look at them, and he started looking up every album
and praising it and figuring out the prices, and then
he said, I'm sending my assistant back to see you
(44:42):
next week and we're going to do this. And that
was a year ago. No, that was one, two, three,
three and a half years ago. I think, Um, that's
why I said I'm coming over there to scoop them. Okay,
after I get my second vaccine track. I have never
(45:04):
been so happy in my life when they lowered the
age and I'm, you know, old enough finally to get
this that scene. But honestly, I want the archives that tapes.
I do want it to go maybe to an institution
where people can listen to it and study it and
learn from it, or do a series of podcasts. Or
(45:26):
do a series of documentaries. I don't know. The problem
is I always was too busy just earning a living
and getting through every day. And now starting this serious
radio show, which is just once a week, I'll be
able to talk, which I loved been writing. Um, I
don't know if I want to write another book, I
(45:46):
don't know. I don't know who else I want to interview.
I mean, you talk about how did I know the
future of rock and roll was cb GBS. I didn't.
I just was there when it happened and it just
seemed right. It was fun. Um. If I had been
able to predict the future, first of all, as friend
Levi it says, I would pick that a lot of tickets.
(46:09):
But also I would have known about hip hop before
I did. Um, because that's inexcusable that I was living
in New York City and I didn't even know that
this was going on for quite a while. Because, as
I said, it's still the music that it's on my iPod.
That and thank Sinatra and some florious Moanero Garner, Well,
(46:32):
thank you, Lisa. Steve. You want to tell ask me something, Yeah, like, well,
you know, why why aren't you just airing these um,
these legendary um interviews that you have as as complete
as a podcast as a podcast, yeah, well, because somebody
hasn't made me the write offer yet. When they do,
(46:52):
I will because yeah, I mean the show I'm doing
for serious is just a call in show, because I
wanted to do something like Stephen A. Smith. Does you
know I wanted people calling in but for music? Well
he does have for sports. I'm going to do it
for music, but I could do it for basketball tour.
I could name you the starting five on all thirty teams.
(47:14):
You know, no one loves the Knicks more than you do.
And I'm like, I'm one of those long man. So
I think you're happy about three wins in a row
that they had come on. At least they're competitive. At
least that's watchable. It's not like it was. Julius Randall
is good. I love him manual quickly, and don't even
(47:35):
get me started on the new Jersey nets because that's
the whole other thing. Well, Lisa, we thank you. We've
been trying to make this happen for years. I'm proud
that you got your technology set up just to be
able to do zoom. Yeah, thank you. I had to
hire and I t guy to do that. I thought, yeah,
look at those albums and years. Seriously. Yeah, I just
(47:57):
want to say I'm proud of you getting over your
technology fears and doing us because you know, you and
I often had the flint stone bird writing a message
sending pigeons to our windows kind of relationships. So one
day I'm gonna get you using the iPhone for real.
I have an iPhone. I listened to music on it.
(48:18):
I go to YouTube, and I Google, and I make
phone calls outgoing when I traveled, when I used to travel. Okay,
Lisa Robinson, ladies and gentleman, question left Supreme woman, thank
you so much, Flo and Shika Steve, thank you. We
will see you on the next go round. Thank you
ladies and gentle Okay, thanks guys. Yoh what's up? Sponte?
(48:44):
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